Laid down pocket kings, get two free ass chewings |
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Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:31 pm GMT by Jauron
Playing in Vegas last week, against a person I've played with for the last 2 years when I made my yearly visit. Memory bank is fuzzy but on her, but I do remember her, which is a problem to me, but I can't remember how well she played.
KK in early position in a $200NL ring game, I come in raising for $15, on the button she makes it $40 to go. Alarm bells go off, I know she's got something but I'm not ready to give her AA just yet so I call and we're heads up. Flop comes 8 high and rainbow, I check she moves in for $130. My mind races back to an hour or so ago and remember she played AA nearly the same way also on the button. After about a minute including me stacking up the call, then putting it back into my stack, I say show me I'm an idiot and fold my hand face up in hopes she's show me the AA so I could live with myself, she does and I silently pat myself on the back for a good fold.
She then proceeds to chew me out, about how she should have doubled up on me, how could I lay down KK there? I give her a shrug. It's cool she's frustrated I had that big a hand and still didn’t go broke.
BUT THEN... a guy at the other end of the table asks why I took so long to make an easy fold. Not sure what to say I said if folding pocket kings to an 8 high board was easy for him, he might be playing the wrong game, in fact I added considering your stack (he had blinded/folded himself down to about $40) I'm pretty sure you are playing the wrong game.
The good news was the table then tries to run me over for the next hour, which I expected, and I got to slow play a lot of hands I probably wouldn't have been able to before showing the lay down, on top of saving myself a lot of money on the KK hand.
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Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:34 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Nice job! I need to start learning that folding a winning hand is less painful than calling with a losing one.
Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:09 pm GMT by galderon
"Folding a winning hand is only a small mistake."
Nice job!
Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:31 pm GMT by cayouche
Once, I folded QQ preflop, but I was more obvious... two reraises after mine. Indeed I was right, someone had AA.
But KK on a 8-high board, wow!! Great job!!
Posted Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:28 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
That's a great fold, but I would not have shown it. That kind of information can be very dangerous to give other players, and at low stakes, it's just asking for trouble (as you learned).
Better to show the big bluff than the big laydown, at least in my opinion. But I might be a bad person to ask, since I almost NEVER show my cards.
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:42 am GMT by groton
no thats a great time to show
Since If you have good Info on your Enamy to know enough that she has Pocket Rockets.
You Show She Goes on Tilt and the other people think your Ultra tight
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:23 pm GMT by galderon
| groton wrote: | no thats a great time to show
Since If you have good Info on your Enamy to know enough that she has Pocket Rockets.
You Show She Goes on Tilt and the other people think your Ultra tight |
Yeah, definately helps you for the tilt factor, and might give you some respect among the better players.
Though like xDiamond_CutteRx said, I'm in the same camp...I almost never show, even when people goad me to show. When other people say, "He just bought the pot", what they're really saying is "I want to see your cards".
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:50 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | The good news was the table then tries to run me over for the next hour, which I expected, and I got to slow play a lot of hands I probably wouldn't have been able to before showing the lay down, on top of saving myself a lot of money on the KK hand. |
Nice laydown and excellent read!!
I did the same in AC against a tight/aggessive player. I folded my Q's to a J-high board just knowing he was holding the rockets. I showed and he didn't berate me, but said, as he flings his aces on the table, "How do you make that laydown? I was supposed to get paid on that hand." After that, the other players at the table, one especially, tried to run over me. He paid me well. :D
| Quote: | | I almost never show, even when people goad me to show. When other people say, "He just bought the pot", what they're really saying is "I want to see your cards". |
Same here for the most part. It's not a common occurence for me to show. However, showing can get you paid in other ways too. I was playing a hand holding 33 and got to check in from the BB. The Flop was A 3 8. I checked, the player two seats to my left made a pot-sized bet and it folded back around to me. I pushed. He went into the tank for about 5-6 minutes and finally folded, showing his A8. I just gave him this shocked look and said "Wow. I had no idea you had two pair too. I thought you were bluffing."  and showed one of my 3's. He bought in 4 times that night and lost at least 3/4 of those buy-ins to me when I'd push with the nuts and he'd call every time. I love it when a plan comes together. 
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:08 pm GMT by UrAteUp
I never show a hand. Doesn't matter if I am bluffing or winning. That is vital information and the only one who deserves to know is me. From showing cards people can learn lots of information.
As far as folding KK pre-flop. I have done it in the past but only in live games. Online it just seems that people will try to push with anything sometimes and you never know when KK runs into AK and holds out to win. I think it is alot harder to avoid the AA trap online then it is in a live game.
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:30 pm GMT by galderon
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | I thought you were bluffing." and showed one of my 3's. |
Ahhh...the dreaded half-show. That's a tactic that I've never employed, but some of my friends do. I think I'll stick with not showing as a general rule. For me, giving away no information is more effective than trying to give away false information. Half the guys I play with wouldn't notice the subtlety and the other half will see through the deception.
Posted Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:26 pm GMT by JohnnyCache
The only time I will show is the "teddy kgb" situation where if I don't rattle a guy, the blinds/time have a good chance of letting him beat me (like say, you're 2000 to his 10000 late in a SNG, you fold him out of pot and put yourself back in contention at aroudn 3 something, and you show him a bluff)
sometimes.
Usually, I show nothing.
Posted Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:34 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I will only show if I'm sure that my showing will accomplish a very specific goal; I'll only a big bluff if I really want someone to give me a lot more action, and if they have a very good chance of actually doing it. Likewise, I'll only show a big laydown if I don't feel like getting any action from other players--and often, this behavior has the opposite effect, because people will often come after you super aggressively because they know you'll laydown even great hands.
Posted Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:38 am GMT by Geno
| Jauron wrote: | | in fact I added considering your stack (he had blinded/folded himself down to about $40) I'm pretty sure you are playing the wrong game. |
Nice 
Posted Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:52 am GMT by JPnasty
1 time after a flop i layed down pocket aces.
a couple callers of 10 beforw i re-raise it 20 more...get 1 caller.
flop comes out K93 all hearts (i have 2 black aces) i bet 20 and the guy moves all in for 160 more. after showing and folding my aces he showed me 1 card A hearts.
later on he said he had another heart but i didn't believe him
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:46 am GMT by Earthshine
I wish the online sites would allow you to "show" a laydown. Are there any that do? I haven't seen one yet. I rarely ever show, ever. But it would be nice to have that option to show a laydown and not just show a winner every once in a while.
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:52 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Earthshine wrote: | | I wish the online sites would allow you to "show" a laydown. Are there any that do? I haven't seen one yet. I rarely ever show, ever. But it would be nice to have that option to show a laydown and not just show a winner every once in a while. |
UB does when heads-up.
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:40 am GMT by Jauron
UB does if your last to act in a hand when no one before you has called etc, obviously this is the only time it would be right to show it anyway.
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:54 pm GMT by Barry1219
Nice read...proves the skill in poker is primary to good play...luck factors in quite heavily sometimes ...but knowing your reads and also player history adds to an advantage that over time will keep you calling pots with other peoples chips...
True also that folding winning hands is a small mistake...I would like to add that I too take Phil Gordon's attitude toward getting all your chips in with the best hand and losing is part of the game...I say that sometimes a fold is another way to bet...some of the best bets I have made are folds...
B
Posted Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:18 pm GMT by monkmask
IMHO I don't think it was a correct play to fold KK in that situation unless you had a very strong and specific read on the player that she would play AA exactly that way but not some other hands like KK, QQ and AK.
Posted Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:39 am GMT by Icec0o1
| monkmask wrote: | | IMHO I don't think it was a correct play to fold KK in that situation unless you had a very strong and specific read on the player that she would play AA exactly that way but not some other hands like KK, QQ and AK. |
You have to depend on your reads in live poker more then anything. Online though, that would be a horrible fold 
Posted Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:42 am GMT by monkmask
| Icec0o1 wrote: | | monkmask wrote: | | IMHO I don't think it was a correct play to fold KK in that situation unless you had a very strong and specific read on the player that she would play AA exactly that way but not some other hands like KK, QQ and AK. |
You have to depend on your reads in live poker more then anything. Online though, that would be a horrible fold |
I agree. But I am still not sure an all-in move with rags on the board like in this case, what kind of read could clearly tell you that she had AA, and only AA, rather than a group of probable hands including AA, KK, QQ and AKs.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:44 am GMT by AceyEm
Ultimate Bet and Poker Stars both have the auto-muck button on by default, if you click it off then you have about 2 seconds at the end of each hand to flip up your losers before the dealer automatically mucks em for you. Also if everyone folds after you bet you get the same 2 seconds to show your cards before they are taken face down.
I use this feature from time to time when I think it'll help push an oponent's tilt button. There's nothing like getting someone to fold trips to your 9-high busted flush and then rubbing it in. Later catching him all-in when you've got the nutz.
Poker is game of the mind and the cards are just a tool that allow you to get into the other guys head and screw around.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:04 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Half the guys I play with wouldn't notice the subtlety and the other half will see through the deception. |
I'm female. The guys I play with don't have a clue what I'm thinking. The hand I was referring to (when I showed the one 3) was in AC against a guy who was fairly new to the table. He'd been flirting with me and at the same time sort of insulting me with his statements. He was annoying the piss out of me, so I had to either send him on tilt to make him leave the table, or take all his money so he'd stop hitting on me/talking to me. Eventually I did both and I attribute his paying me off a great deal to that one hand.
| Quote: | | Poker is game of the mind and the cards are just a tool that allow you to get into the other guys head and screw around. |
I don't need cards to screw around with a guy's mind. I'm female and a psych wiz.
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