Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:37 am GMT by tutubird
This hand happened to me today, I am curious to see if what I did was right or wrong and see peoples opinion.
Small Blind- Very Weak/Loose ( $82 )
Big Blind - Solid Player, although a bit agressive. ( $11 )
UTG - Fairly Aggressive, but solid. ( $36 )
Hero - Playing a tight aggressive game ( $56 )
This is a cash game and was down to 4 players with blinds 25c/50c. Last hand of the night.
UTG limps
I look down to see two black Queens and bet $1.50.
Small Blinds calls, and Big Blind moves all in blind for another $9.50. The strange thing about the Big Blind is that he will only leave doubling up or busting.
As I am getting my chips ready, UTG goes all in for a total of $36.
What should I do?
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Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:39 am GMT by tame_deuces
Based on your reads as the two pushers being 'solid' I would guess you are at worst making a small mistake if you fold, even if it is down to four hands.
If UTG could do this with AJo or medium pocket pairs this should be a clear call.
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A good rule of thumb for the common 'QQ dillemma' is that if you don't think your opponent goes below QQ,KK,AA,AKo,AKs in a preflop push you can usually safely fold unless you have allready invested a substantial amount of money into what the pot total will be if you call - it won't be a horrible mistake.
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:43 am GMT by zinn0
I agree with Tame here. Sometimes folding what may be the best hand isn't that bad of a move at all.
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:02 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I'd fold here and wait for a better spot. As others said, folding may be a small mistake, but calling and losing your stack would be a huge mistake, especially if, as I suspect, you're up against at least one bigger pair, maybe both the bigger pairs.
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:18 pm GMT by tutubird
Well, after going into the tank for about 3 minutes, I folded figuring UTG had KK or AA, small blind also folded who had 6 6.
In the end, The Big Blinds blind all in hand turned out to be K 2, and looked disgusted as UTG flipped over 10 10. To add insult to injury, the board read
9  9  3 Q  7
I think I was about 60% to win the hand preflop if I had called. But I think even if I did know my opponents hands, I think I still would have folded. But I am not sure if thats the right play.
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:33 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| tutubird wrote: |
I think I was about 60% to win the hand preflop if I had called. But I think even if I did know my opponents hands, I think I still would have folded. But I am not sure if thats the right play. |
That's not the right play. 
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:52 pm GMT by zinn0
| tutubird wrote: | | But I think even if I did know my opponents hands, I think I still would have folded. But I am not sure if thats the right play. |
Please expound on this a bit? Why would you have folded even though you could see that you were clearly ahead? Preflop, there are 5 cards that beat you.
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:07 pm GMT by Hungry4Knowledge
Hm.... Didnt you say the Big Blind was a solid player? A "solid" player moving all-in with K-2? And then the other solid player moving all-in over an all-in in a raised pot with 10s, possibly 3-handed? Doesnt sound like very solid plays, at best a call would be justified with 10s in that position (i think) And just for the record, if you got queens and you would know the other players got K-2 and 10-10 then its a terrible play to fold.... The main pot (33$ if you called) you would be about 60% to win, but the side pot (50$ if you called) you would be 4-1 to win, so folding knowing those hands is a terrible, terrible, terrible move  But the fold itself isnt bad vs. 2 all-ins... These players on the other hand doesnt seem like very solid players. A player thinking his gonna bust or double, then moving all-in with K-2 isnt a solid player.
Btw. The BB looked disgusted when it turned out he was an underdog vs. UTG? He think he would have a big chance with his junk-hand? And one more thing: UTG also limped with 10-10 four handed? Thats also a pretty bad/terrible play i belive! I think the only startinghand allowed to slowplay pre-flop is A-A and im not to happy about that either... If they usually play like that, i would like to play with them every day :D
Please, correct me if im wrong anyone
Posted Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:44 pm GMT by tutubird
Maybe my post was unclear or didn't add enough detail. The BB was a solid player although for some reason at the end of each session, he'd rather only be up or even. In this case he bought in $40, and was down to $11. He announced before the hand that hed rather leave doubling up or nothing and said he would go all in blind. I guess everyone has their quirks.
I guess the limp with 10 10 UTG was questionable, but I believe his all in was to fold me and the small blind out so he could be heads up.
I looked disgusted, sorry forgot to add the I.
After a little thinking you guys were right, if I did no, I proboly shoulden't fold. Im not sure why I even asked that.
As for the post itself, I was just wondering if the fold itself was smart or just ridiculous. Thanks for the confirmation guys. As you see, I need alot of work....
Posted Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:41 am GMT by Jauron
Man I could of sworn I'd posted, but I guess I didn't.
I read it right, one guy is blind all in, forget him. UTG would need to be a complete donkey to play AA or KK this way. You don't slow play AA or KK preflop first to act 4 handed and then blow your wad when a player goes all in blind after UTG+1 raises unless you fear something.
To me it smelled like a middle pair, frankly I expected 8's or 9's but 10's makes sense as well. AK can make this move as well, but I don't mind racing with AK in a cash game with QQ.
I'd have called in a heartbeat unless I thought UTG was dumb enough to play AA or KK this way.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:02 am GMT by AceyEm
He mentioned that this was going to be the last hand of the night. For some reason a lot of otherwise solid players go berserk on the last hand and get that all or nothing attitude. One guy pushed all-in without even looking at his cards.
In this situation, if I'm satisfied with my stack, I just fold and let the bozos bang heads against each other. After working all night to get a stack, no sense in watching it all go away in one big pissing contest.
Folding the Qs is probably the best move in this silly situation.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:05 am GMT by Pokerfarian
The fact that this was the last hand plays into my move here.
Many an otherwise tight player will take a shot at making a massive comback on the last hand with pretty non-remarkable cards.
Other players will under play great hands, trying to protect what profit they have.
For me at least, poker is about making the right moves. My mantra is, "it's all one big session", and I will play that last hand just as I would any other.
QQ in a cash no limit game is a monster. I would have been willing to pay off anyone with KK or AA. I would have been eager to call anyone drawing at a single A or K. So I am in here.
The fact that it is the last hand does not effect my play (at least I try), but may well effect others play is a factor for me.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:41 am GMT by tame_deuces
It's a NL preflop push scenario. Basically the poker equivalent of +/-. Not much advanced stuff here.
Versus some opponents calling will likely be unprofitable. (AK,AA,KK range)
Versus other opponents calling will likely be profitable. (medium PP or better+,AJ or better)
(Good/bad pot odds will ofcourse alter our perspective on what is a profitable call, with good pot odds we can live with being a probable dog in the hand).
I think any general advice stating 'you should call' or 'you should fold' will be wrong.
The biggest pitfall here is looking for a reason support your own desire to call or fold. Like the desire to be ahead, refusing to accept that you are not a favourite or an desire to get away from a sticky situation and save yourself some money. All these are the true dangers here, because those are the ones that will lose you money...as opposed to basing your decision on sound evaluations.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:18 pm GMT by BeerWench13
I'm posting without reading anyone else's replies as I don't want them to influence my thoughts, so if this has already been said, please forgive the redundancy.
It's the last hand of the night? These guys could be pushing with anything. I'd call without thinking about it. This happens almost every time the "last hand" call is given at most of the home games I've played. They want to just steal the blinds to get a little more in their stack before they cash out.
I don't know your players, but there are usually at least 2-5 people all-in at the games I play on the final hand of the night.
I'd call.
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