Catch Poker Tells of Poor Players |
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Posted Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:27 pm GMT by Saso8910
I cannot believe that this forum has hardly no postings on tells?? Whats up with that?? I have been playing for a few years and had to learn the hard way to pick up tells then read books to look for tells. Let me tell you- the first time you catch a full blown tell on a bluffing player is the best feeling in the world! I'm not talkin about a "feeling you have" but the real deal. The most common tells that I see are what I call the TOP 3 Of Poor Players!
1) You are in Hold'em and the flop has 3 cards of the same suit. Immediatly look for the players who check their hole cards and for players who don't! Chances are that if a flopped flush did happen- the player(s) who hit it knows it and doesnt need to look to see if they have it! If a player doesn't look at their cards, but rather looks at their chips- they're seeing how much money they have to raise with!
2) Its said that players play the way they look! So, take advantage of it! You can pick up players tells through their actual manners and action of betting! How do you make this a reality? Well, if a player is leaned back and has arms crossed/reading a magazine/eating/whatever, plus their chips are perfectly stacked and orderly- you know what this cards this person plays! He/She is patient, they wait for premium hands, they are regimented in betting and are orderly- basically they sit around until they like what they see! So, first, call this person less frequently when big cards are on the deck and raise when lower denominational cards are present. If the player acts like they have a hand when crappy cards are present- you can only put them on pocket pairs or maybe a flopped set/flush draw! You have their game down!
If a player is scumming looking, chips unstacked, and are leaning forward- that usually means that the player is reckless. They will play poor cards and try to make something happen. You want to call or raise this person more often. But, be careful, these are the players who win when probability takes a hike and makes a inside straight draw on the river card!
3) The tell of all poor poker player tells! If a flop or a card of possible significance comes and your opponant looks away - they probably has a great hand! This is what I call the fight/flight tell. Usually, a player needs to fight you to win a pot, they are attentive. But, with a made hand, the first instinct is flight. As if that card that dropped scared them because it made their hand! The opponant now knows he/she has more than likely won and doesn't know how to act- so they look away from the table.
Now that you have my top 3- look for it! But, you will really thank me when you begin using these tells to your own advantage to bluff your own hands to players who know how to look for tells! (ie- you flopped a flush and you know it, but look at your cards anyway. Or, You look away from the table when a possible straight card or a third suited card drops- as if you made a hand, but you have nothing!) These are Fake Tells!
-SASO
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Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:35 am GMT by JohnnyCache
What about a player who CONSTANTLY count his chips?
Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:19 am GMT by racquet000
idk i count my chips. And i play with people who are reckless. They offer some good money but at the same token tend to catch more river cards.
Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:49 am GMT by Saso8910
Players who constantly count and arrange their chips are the ones you want to both be careful of and also take advantage of. I try to be on top of my money management and in order to do so- you need to know how much you've won, lost, or when to leave... Players who count chips are exercising their money management strategy- They're calculating their bankroll and profits - these players are usually tight and play premium cards and flops. So, call their raises less often since they know exactly what they are staking (hence, solid hands) But, there is no UP without DOWN!
Those players who are a little too fanatical about money management may set up goals that may hurt them. i.e. I will not call "pre-flop" capping raises out of position, I will only bet/call $XXX amount of money on A/10 and under. But, most importantly-- these players question themselves a lot due to their regimented money management- breaking it is like breaking a promise to a loved one. Yeah, this sounds funny to loose and regular players, but if this discipline proves to the individual as profitable- then go with it!
Remember, poker tells are in the eye of the beholder. You cannot pick up a tell on ever hand or every player. But, if you only pick up one tell, with one player, in one month! You have the edge since you're the one who took down the pot! Later, I'm going to post another subject on this subject- specifically on hats and sunglasses and the idiots who where them!- SASO
Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:12 pm GMT by racquet000
Ive slowly started to pick up tells on certain people i play with not even looking for them. Just kinda by the way they bet. Its fun to realy mess with there hands/heads.
Posted Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:06 pm GMT by nelly
I never really realized that about the flush but it true. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to look for it more often.
Posted Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:29 am GMT by MCAgambler27
They are some great hints espically the one about the 3 of the same suit i think that is excalty what people do and i will make sure to look for the next time. 8)
8)
Posted Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:38 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
good stuff saso 
here's another good 1....
When you make a small rise and someone is sitting there thinking about what to do, and they are looking (or glancing) at your chips rather than at your face, then chances are they have the nuts and are trying to figure how they can get the maximum amount of your chips over to their pile.
Also while looking for tells on other guys, what about yourself? Do you know your own tells? very hard thing to do, but try and be aware of anything you do, i dont mean be a rock whenever you got a big hand cos that in itself is a tell  be aware of your posture/expression/gestures and try and be the same way no matter what you have in your hand
Posted Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:41 pm GMT by Jonniedough
| wEbMaStEr wrote: | good stuff saso
Also while looking for tells on other guys, what about yourself? Do you know your own tells? very hard thing to do, but try and be aware of anything you do, i dont mean be a rock whenever you got a big hand cos that in itself is a tell be aware of your posture/expression/gestures and try and be the same way no matter what you have in your hand |
This is an amazing and very hard thing to try and accomplish! On the same note of realizing your tells, if and when you do, look fot that in other players also, it may be a similar thing they are doing too.
I thought this was pretty funny, last night in playing a home tourney I found myself yawn at my first PP that hit a set on the flop. I like to trap my friends since they all bet on anything. But you know my the yawn came from no where,( too seem as if the board was crap, uninterested!) I didnt think much about it till my 2nd PP that was top pair to the board....I yawned again, glad my group plays the cards not the person. That was my last yawn for the night, unless I wasnt in a hand.
Posted Wed May 12, 2004 4:42 pm GMT by Supersquid191
I like the dress thing, never thought about it, but in hindsight it seem corret.
I would add listen to what they say. I have had good success from the guys who say they watched WPT and want to try it out. As you probably know the WPT is edited for TV and they show big bluffs paying off with alot more than the do in the real time length of the tournement. These guys think they can bluff their way out of any pots.
I also found if you start joking with people, they think they are your friend and will start to tell you every hand they had.
Plus, I love the guys who have a beer or rum & coke every time the cocktail girl comes around.
Also I am a big fan of the guys sound confident with big hands, but use a softer voice tone with marginal hands and never change up their play.
Posted Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:04 pm GMT by Sacramento Slim
Those who act strong usually have a weak hand. Those who act weak usually have a strong hand. Keep an eye out for those who confidently throw their chips in the pot (bluffing) or those who act hesitent in calling (slow playing).
Posted Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:27 am GMT by MasterShake
The first table skill all hold 'em players should learn as early as possible in my opinion is to remember your pocket cards the first time you look at them and then not look at them again for the rest of the hand.
Posted Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:03 pm GMT by joelwas
| meatwad wrote: | | The first table skill all hold 'em players should learn as early as possible in my opinion is to remember your pocket cards the first time you look at them and then not look at them again for the rest of the hand. |
I second this, but also point out to make sure that you remember them correctly. I played a brilliant hand during a small private tournament. Final three and I was heads-up against the guy that roughly had the same number of chips (chip leader had a huge lead). I read him perfectly and knew my Q6 would beat his Ax (board had paired 9s and 2s with a 6). I go all in on the river and he calls. I turn over Q8 and sheepishly took third place.
So, don't look at your cards -- but make sure you remember them.
Posted Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:20 pm GMT by cayouche
Mah... happened to me too , guess it happened to alot of us. At least you had one card right, . One time, I don't know why but my mind was stuck on the hand I had the hand before. The flop came, I thought I had top pair. The guy goes all-in, I proudly call... Man did I look stupid that night!! Of course, I had nothing...
| cayouche wrote: | What about when they go all-in??
True, you can spot all the other tells, but I think there's another one, someone could spot.
You see regularly on TV, when someone goes all-in, the soon-to-be-caller (or not) asks how much they have left. One time, I heard the commentators say "I don't know why they do that, they know exactly how much they have left". Exactly!! IMO, they want to see how sure the all-in guy is with their betting.
So, there's two kind of all-in'ers. Those who will say "I raise 450, I'm all in" or "I'm all in, so that's 450 more", and those who will just say "I'm all in".
Does this mean anything to you?? Can you say that the guy who says instantly the number of chips he's going all-in with is pretty sure of themselves, or the opoosite, they do that when they're bluffing?? I always thought there was a correlation there... what you guys think?? |
I posted this on another thread, you guys spotted anything like this before??
Posted Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:52 am GMT by groton
not that all in thing.
but about remebering your cards.
i always remeber my Cards but i also always looks at them on the Turn just to make sure there right and once more on the River but on the Flop i normoly dont check them.
and thats even when i have Four Aces on the Turn and River so the other people dont get a read on me looking at my cards at those times
Posted Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:51 pm GMT by Da_Warf
Up until a week ago i seemed to involuntarily cover my mouth after bluffing or even calling with bad cards. I'm now working on looking for it in others while fixing it myself 
Posted Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:06 am GMT by VegasFish
| Saso8910 wrote: | Players who constantly count and arrange their chips are the ones you want to both be careful of and also take advantage of. I try to be on top of my money management and in order to do so- you need to know how much you've won, lost, or when to leave... Players who count chips are exercising their money management strategy- They're calculating their bankroll and profits - these players are usually tight and play premium cards and flops. So, call their raises less often since they know exactly what they are staking (hence, solid hands) But, there is no UP without DOWN!
Those players who are a little too fanatical about money management may set up goals that may hurt them. i.e. I will not call "pre-flop" capping raises out of position, I will only bet/call $XXX amount of money on A/10 and under. But, most importantly-- these players question themselves a lot due to their regimented money management- breaking it is like breaking a promise to a loved one. Yeah, this sounds funny to loose and regular players, but if this discipline proves to the individual as profitable- then go with it!
Remember, poker tells are in the eye of the beholder. You cannot pick up a tell on ever hand or every player. But, if you only pick up one tell, with one player, in one month! You have the edge since you're the one who took down the pot! Later, I'm going to post another subject on this subject- specifically on hats and sunglasses and the idiots who where them!- SASO |
First I would like to say IMHO..you are wrong. Most top notch players know that noobs who are looking to try their luck in the bigger limit games have read the same books we did 7 years ago and that they will be looking for certain tells and we will create them for the purpose of misleading. I do the samething with my chips ..stacking them or playing around with them just to offer a tell that 1. I am not paying attention when really I watch the game at all times...2..Crossing my arms...Breathing heavy... Looking at my cards once I hit the flush on the flop...It would be players like you I would want to look for to play against.. Most pro players I would never use those tactics against because those are obvious tells to them and can lead me to give away true tells.
Tells are based on the player not all players exibit the same characteristics as the next one. See players all have something that makes them nerveous..whether its deep breathing..shaky hands...looking away from the table..grabbing chips with their left hand instead of their right..making certain limit bets in a certain position or cards they hold..it goes on and on. It is a pattern that you have to pick up on and not all people produce the same pattern.
Most of the tells you are discussing are tells that most low limit players offer. Most high limit professional players try to misdirect and do have tells but not ones that inexperienced players will pick up on or you are going to read about in a book. Only time and experience will give you those answers.
You also mentioned something about people who wear sunglasses. Well I wear sunglasses because the one thing that 95% of people that play poker cant hide is their eyes..eyes will give away everything.Eyes are the gateway to your soul. I am sure most people would agree that Stu Unger is proabaly the best poker player ever to play the game...why did he wear sunglasses.
I think you offer great advise for novice players and maybe that is what most are here but the advise given to those that are looking to make a transition into the full time world of poker is going to send them down the path that players like myself love to see.
Poker is a game of skill but without luck all the tell reading ability in the world isnt going to help you one bit. It is also about gut feeling and emotion. This is the biggest mistake most new players make..not controling their emotions and those emotions lead to tells.
Posted Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:18 am GMT by JohnKiller
Da_Warf please check PM !!!
Posted Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:41 am GMT by BassHunter
I don't know if this is a common one, but one guy I play with is easily read by what denomination of chips he uses when betting. Example, if he opens with a $10 bet and throw out two $5 chips, got the best hand. If he throws out 10 $1 chips, he's holding a second pair or drawing for something. I don't know why he does this but I presume he likes to keep the big chips in front of him and when he thinks he might lose the hand, he dumps the little ones. I feel sorry for him, but as far as I can tell I'm the only one of the group that has noticed this so far.
Posted Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:17 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | the flop has 3 cards of the same suit. Immediatly look for the players who check their hole cards and for players who don't! Chances are that if a flopped flush did happen- the player(s) who hit it knows it and doesnt need to look to see if they have it! |
| Quote: | | One time, I don't know why but my mind was stuck on the hand I had the hand before. The flop came, I thought I had top pair. The guy goes all-in, I proudly call |
Two reasons why I always look at my hole cards after the flop, turn and river no matter what I have. Even if I'm sitting on quads, I want to make sure I do the same thing every hand.
| Quote: | | Players who count chips are exercising their money management strategy- They're calculating their bankroll and profits - these players are usually tight and play premium cards and flops. So, call their raises less often since they know exactly what they are staking (hence, solid hands) But, there is no UP without DOWN! |
Are they really exercising money management, or just being organized? I'm a natural organizer. When the pot's right, I stack all of the chips properly in the pot so that it's easy to see how much is in there. And, I always know how much money I have in front of me. I also know how much there is in front of my opponents as well. It may not be down to the penny, but I have a very close idea. I play the hands and the players, not set amounts so I may fall in the category of a "money manager" by the above notion, but I in no way am that kind of player.
| Quote: | | Those who act strong usually have a weak hand. Those who act weak usually have a strong hand. Keep an eye out for those who confidently throw their chips in the pot (bluffing) or those who act hesitent in calling (slow playing). |
Sometimes this is true (Caro's Book of Tells), but I almost always play "weak". Once you've slow-played a big hand once, you get to see alot of free cards when you check with your weaker hands. You usually don't get as much action as you'd like on stronger hands after that, but I'd rather win small than lose big most of the time anyway. Also, you can take down quite a few pots with very minimal bets because players have pegged you as a slow-player.
| Quote: | | I would add listen to what they say. I have had good success from the guys who say they watched WPT and want to try it out. As you probably know the WPT is edited for TV and they show big bluffs paying off with alot more than the do in the real time length of the tournement. These guys think they can bluff their way out of any pots. |
You think? Every time I sit down with new players, those are the first words out of my mouth. Then they all think I'm completely clueless (and a chick to boot!) so I usually get a lot of callers on my first few big hands. After a while they catch on, but I'm usually counting a majority of their chips by then.
| Quote: | | be aware of your posture/expression/gestures and try and be the same way no matter what you have in your hand |
This is, by far, the best advice. If you can keep your tells to a minimum, you can usually pick up on others as you play with them more and then you're at an advantage.
Never take "book tells" and apply them to every player. Each player is different. I've only read a few poker books, but I didn't read them for the strategy. I read them to know what everyone else who has read those books will use as their strategy. Then I use the "book tells" against them time and again. Then, when they realize that I'm doing the opposite of what the book tells are, I change them up again. After a while I've taken them so far down the rabbit hole that they don't know what I'm doing.
Posted Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:13 pm GMT by Cyberhwk
I don't know if it's a tell or not since it's pretty universal for me, but whenever someone tries to stare me down it's all I can do to not start LMAO.
As I know some have mentioned, I think tells are overrated. And which tells you DO GET are going to be from being aware of everyone's general demenor, not a staredown. It's like people give you the old blinkless stare just because they think that's what you're SUPPOSED to do. 
Posted Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:47 pm GMT by JunkyardGod
If you watch a player long enough, you can pick up and all the little things he/she does and really take advantage of it.
Example:
At my usual homegame, there's this one kid thats your typical chaser. Plays too many flops and tries to bluff way too often. He's incredibly lucky and usually ends up in the top 3 every time.
By the third time we played, I had him nailed to the wall with everything he does.
He would try to stare at you when he was bluffing.
He would raise pre-flop with any ace.
He would have the biggest shit-eating grin on his face when he was holding the nuts (or even what he thought was the nuts)
When he went all-in, he would stand up holding his cards if he had a monster. If he had anything lower than trips he would stay in his seat and try to act calm.
So many things that have made it very easy for me to beat him.
Posted Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:29 pm GMT by BigSlugger09
I remember once when I though I had the club flush, just to get all excited and turn over my cards realizing one card was a spade. I lost a huge pot.
Never made that mistake again.
Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:56 am GMT by pat1971
I have done tons of reading and watching the Caros videos and have tried to use them to my advantage of course.
I was playing with a few people and had a fairly decent starting hand and we all limped into the flop.
My best friend being the first to act literally tosses in a big stack of chips and the next person looks around and does exactly the same.
Being the last to act I believe I had a pair of Q's and a face kicker.
I looked at both people who tossed their chips in and told them I Know they were bluffing and that I had this hand won and too prove it I raised well over their raise and "placed" my chips down.
On their turns they both folded and asked me how I knew.
As you may have figured I didnt tell.
Posted Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:05 pm GMT by MasterMike
| joelwas wrote: | | meatwad wrote: | | The first table skill all hold 'em players should learn as early as possible in my opinion is to remember your pocket cards the first time you look at them and then not look at them again for the rest of the hand. |
I second this, but also point out to make sure that you remember them correctly. I played a brilliant hand during a small private tournament. Final three and I was heads-up against the guy that roughly had the same number of chips (chip leader had a huge lead). I read him perfectly and knew my Q6 would beat his Ax (board had paired 9s and 2s with a 6). I go all in on the river and he calls. I turn over Q8 and sheepishly took third place.
So, don't look at your cards -- but make sure you remember them. |
Same, i floped two pair once (k 5) flop was like k 5 a.
I paired the k 5 and thought i had k 6. So i bet as if i had just the king (which i thought i had), he calls. The next card is 7. I bet again (cant remember what my strategy in the hand was..especially if i couldnt even remember my cards), he calls. Then another 7 comes.
Then i looked back at my cards and saw the 5 there, what an idiot i was. He ended up having like A 3 and although it was a 'bad beat', i could have taken the pot down earlier if i had payed a bit more attention.
I think it was because i was small blind and nobody raise, so i just called, not taking note of my cards.
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:49 pm GMT by Jauron
Caro's Book of Poker tells cover most of these and more. Plus you get the sexy pictures ...
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:03 am GMT by toonarmy1987
another thing to remember is when a card is dealt down, be it flop, turn or river, it is a good idea to forget about what you have and look at the faces of those you are playing against to see if you can get a tell. this is good for two reasons.
1) the cards will be there for as long as you want but a facial expresion is only for a moment and once it has gone there is no way to look at it again. if you watch phil ivey play he is constantly doing this. his eyes move so much, his friends have been quoted saying that it looks like he is on crack.
2) if you dont look at the cards and constrate on other players then no one can gain a tell off you because you dont know how good your hand is!
Posted Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:08 pm GMT by ToyMachine22122
Haha, I've got a kind of funny story about that...
A week or two ago I realized one of my tells that I was bluffing when someone was looking like they were making a tough decision to call. I raised my hands up behind my head and then they insta-called...and it actually had been a bluff and they got me with a pair of eights. But after that I was able to later manipulate it by repeating the action in a hand where I pushed on the river with a queen high flush against his two pair, ace high. Just raised the arms up and sure enough he called. 
So, this spawns the question, is it worthwhile to forfeit smaller hands in order to create "fake" tells early in the game? Theoretically this would give you something you can use later to hopefully give the opponent a false read on the real hands...and it could also benefit in making the opponent think you're a bad bluffer when you lose those small hands.
Never really thought about this, just figured I'd throw it out there.
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