Posted Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:31 am GMT by Dat_Dude
PokerStars Game #4247971400: Tournament #21117331, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/03/11 - 03:20:40 (ET)
Table '21117331 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: allbll (840 in chips)
Seat 2: KlumpShufler (4100 in chips)
Seat 4: Buddman69 (2345 in chips)
Seat 6: mikeh16 (5140 in chips)
Seat 8: Diesel_IA (1075 in chips)
Buddman69: posts small blind 25
mikeh16: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Diesel_IA  
Diesel_IA: raises 100 to 150
allbll: folds
KlumpShufler: folds
Buddman69: folds
mikeh16: calls 100
*** FLOP ***   
mikeh16: checks
Diesel_IA: bets 400
mikeh16: raises 400 to 800
Diesel_IA: ??!?!?!?!?!
In this spot, I cannot just call. If I call, then it is a push on the turn no matter what since I will be totally pot committed. Villain plays a lot of mediocre hands preflop even facing a raise. He called an all in with A8o against a 77 and won. So he could have called my preflop raise with any two high cards.
Do I give up here and wait for a better spot? Or push it in hoping he doesnt have a K?
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Posted Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:10 am GMT by zinn0
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but after the flop bet you have commited over half of your chips to the pot. Wow. You're in a tight spot. I think you might be behind, but with only 500 chips remaining, there isn't a lot you can do. Hmmmm, I say push. He is probably playing Ax again, paired his x and doesn't give you credit for the King.
Posted Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:51 am GMT by Geno
Given those chip counts, the fact that you are UTG and need to double thru, you should push pre-flop and hope to get called. The odds are not bad given that it could easily been seen as a pure bluff.
Even without the push pre-flop, you gotta do it on the flop or check/fold if you think you are behind. Bad play!
Posted Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:43 am GMT by matrix_xxx
I'd push. But then again I'm a young male... the only commitment I know in life is pot commitment 
Posted Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:41 am GMT by kao85
I'd hafta lay this down ( QQ and I have a love hate relationship )
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:34 am GMT by UrAteUp
Lay it down. Here is my reasoning why. That pre-flop raise was too weak. Hands like K9, AX, Ax and any two suited cards would likely call this raise. With "The Hilton Sisters" I like to push pre-flop more then post flop. I want only AX hands in the pot after the flop. If I see no over cards then I am pushing baby. If I see one overcard I still push and pray.
Let me guess at what each villians had. Villian one, the first raiser, had 2  s. Villian 2 who re-raised, had KX or possibly AK.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:23 am GMT by Dave B
No way you fold here. Over $2k in the pot if you push and win. You have nearly 1/2 your chips in the pot. Plus, you are against the big stack who has more than enough chips to push you around w/ any 2 cards.
EV definately +1. ALL YOU CAN EAT BABY!
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:08 pm GMT by Dat_Dude
| UrAteUp wrote: |
Let me guess at what each villians had. Villian one, the first raiser, had 2 s. Villian 2 who re-raised, had KX or possibly AK. |
UrAte,
I am sorry to say that you misread again. There are not two villains in this hand, unless you consider me a Villain  .
I did not lay this hand down. I pushed the rest of my chips in and he showed KJo.
I realize now that I probably should have just pushed preflop, but believe it or not, this was mixing it up. I had actually gone all in the previous two hands and just picked up blinds. I guess I was hoping someone hit an underpair or got a draw on the flop and I could double up. 
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:00 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | this was mixing it up. I had actually gone all in the previous two hands and just picked up blinds. |
I'd have pushed again. Third time's a charm. You may have still gotten called by Mr Bigstack, but I'd prefer to get all my money in when I have the best hand, not when it's questionable.
Have you ever noticed that if you have Q's preflop there's always an A or K on the flop? The same goes for KK. It never fails that one over card will flop out there just to make you question your hand. It may just be me though. I have been on a cold run lately.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:44 pm GMT by Hurricane Ham
| Dat_Dude wrote: |
I realize now that I probably should have just pushed preflop, but believe it or not, this was mixing it up. I had actually gone all in the previous two hands and just picked up blinds. |
Why are you pushing pre flop with over 20BB in your stack?
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:18 pm GMT by Dat_Dude
| Hurricane Ham wrote: | | Dat_Dude wrote: |
I realize now that I probably should have just pushed preflop, but believe it or not, this was mixing it up. I had actually gone all in the previous two hands and just picked up blinds. |
Why are you pushing pre flop with over 20BB in your stack? |
Because before I pushed all in twice, I didn't have 20BB in my stack. I collected probably about $200-$250 those previous hands by picking up blinds and limpers. So that puts my stack at around $750-800. I personally don't like raising preflop when I am that low without the intention of pushing on the flop no matter what, so I just put it all in and hope to double up.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:59 pm GMT by AHBrownell
Raise more preflop, and lower % of the stack post flop.
What I see is that you bet 400 into a 325 chip pot. Why overbet? If you are beat and you bet this much you have very little choice to call the rest of your chips.
I would rather raise to 200 or 250 with QQ preflop too. Its unlikely that your opponent would call with hands like K9 or K8 with a larger raise - although being chip leader he very likely would call with KJ. If you bet 200 preflop, then the pot would have been 425. On the flop I would then bet 2/3 the pot or about 270. That puts 470 of your chips in the pot leaving you with 605. I think you can fold to his raise now - and know with some certainty that he had the K (because of your larger raise preflop).
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:06 am GMT by Skribbles
| AHBrownell wrote: |
I would rather raise to 200 or 250 with QQ preflop too. Its unlikely that your opponent would call with hands like K9 or K8 with a larger raise - although being chip leader he very likely would call with KJ. If you bet 200 preflop, then the pot would have been 425. On the flop I would then bet 2/3 the pot or about 270. That puts 470 of your chips in the pot leaving you with 605. I think you can fold to his raise now - and know with some certainty that he had the K (because of your larger raise preflop). |
Gotta be careful with that. A decent player will pick up on it and bluff ya out. But your average $5 SNGs moron prolly wouldn't catch on.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:24 am GMT by AHBrownell
Careful with what exactly? If you are referring to raising amount-
I raise 2/3 the pot every time I hit with a dangerous board (or when bluffing one) AND 1/2 the pot every time I hit a safe board (or when bluffing one). Seems to work to me.
I usually judge weak bets at less than 1/2 bets - 1/3 or 1/4 the pot WITH dangerous boards. These are the type of pot to bluff people out of. 
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:10 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I usually judge weak bets at less than 1/2 bets - 1/3 or 1/4 the pot WITH dangerous boards. These are the type of pot to bluff people out of. |
Funny, that's usually what I bet when I have the nuts. I don't want to scare the little rabbit away and I want him to think I'm weak so he does push more of his stack in the pot to try to bluff me off the hand.
The 1/3 or 1/4 pot bet is a bleeder bet. I do it often. So you may want to use caution in that thinking as well.
Posted Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:54 am GMT by AHBrownell
So take these examples -
Example 1)
You have 5  5  - you limp in early position, 4 players see the flop. Flop is: A 5  T . The blinds check to you.
You bet 1/3 the pot or less?
Example 2)
You have A K - you raise in middle position 3 players call you - 4 players see the flop. Flop is: K A 4 . The blinds check to you.
You bet 1/3 the pot or less here?
Example 3)
You have A A - you limp in early position, 4 players see the flop. Flop is: A 5 T . The blinds check to you.
You bet 1/3 the pot or less?
----
If you do then I think you are nuts lol! If I see a player bet this amount on the flop I nearly always raise them if I have something at all. Small bets on these pots screams - I am either unafraid of the draw - or am on the draw...
Small river bets do mean the nuts - but I am not talking about that here...
Posted Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:41 am GMT by BeerWench13
Those are different scenarios. I said "That's usually what I bet when I have the nuts." Every hand is different, but I love players who think that because I make a weak bet on the flop it means that I'm weak. This is what I want them to think. You have to remember that every poker player thinks and plays differently. Are they betting weakly because they are weak or because they want you to think they're weak? How far down the rabbit trail do you want to go?
Scary boards call for different bets depending on your opponents.
Posted Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:20 am GMT by Skribbles
| AHBrownell wrote: | | Careful with what exactly? |
Throwing out a bet that leaves you in a position where you can still fold. If your oppenent sees this, it opens up a great oppurtunity to bluff you.
Posted Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:30 pm GMT by AHBrownell
Oh okay. Thx Skribbles. Yah I could see that. I was just suggesting that is how I would play any hand - including this one. It just happened that in this situation you could fold if you did so - a nice benefit of betting this way.
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