How Does Poker Effect Your Life? |
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Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:06 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
I want to post a couple of articles written by well respected internet poker players. Both of them gave me pause for thought about my life and my poker habits and i think it is important that others read these and think about the thoughts expressed in them.
I am not trying to scaremonger or say that this will happen to you, i just feel that it is something serious that all regular and serious players should consider.
The first article is by a guy called Todd Arnold, an extremely successful and respected internet player who goes by the name NSXT2
SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT:
Todd Arnold (NSXT)
This article is a bit different in nature. It’s not about strategy or even about the game itself. It’s about an epiphany I recently had. It pertains to those of us who play online poker daily and how it can affect your life. And, even if you are a winning player, the effects can be quite negative to your personal life. In this article I am going to go out on a limb and open up to you about what has happened in my personal life due to my continuous play online. It’s not going to be easy for me to admit some of these things to you, but I feel that they are important so that others don’t make the same mistakes.
I have spoken with many friends who also play online daily and excessively. Over time, we have all noticed the same trend. In my case, I used to be very social. I used to go out and do a lot of things with my friends and girlfriends. What once was a good release and hobby, poker soon became an addiction of a sort and I found myself not going out ever.
My epiphany is that I actually have become antisocial. My phone used to ring 10 times a day from friends and now the phone rings 30 times a day but it’s my players that I coach, business-related calls for poker, projects, and so on. When a friend does call, it always starts the same way. Instead of, “Hey man,” it’s, “Are you playing right now? OK, I won’t bother you.” Hell, even my dad starts the conversation that way. I have made many good friends on the poker tour but my contact with them, for the most part, is at the tournaments on the road and on the phone. So, essentially all my contact with people has to do with business and that is the same as any workaholic in any field. And we know that is not healthy.
My relationship of more than three years with my girlfriend has also ended. Whether I can blame poker entirely for this is unknown, but I’ll tell you it certainly didn’t help the situation. Most of my poker friends are also single. Coincidence? I see many players online playing well into the night and morning hours every day. This means that their spouse or significant other is going to bed alone (or with someone else). At first, it doesn’t seem like much of a big deal, as your relationship is probably strong enough to withstand this, but, over time, your partner will grow tired of it. Maybe he or she will never even say anything because your partner doesn’t want to be unsupportive, but, believe me, it’s not helping your relationship. You may be making a lot of money and spending it on the partner, but that stuff doesn’t matter and is not satisfying your partner’s relationship needs. Attention is what your partner needs, not a Rolex.
Also, many players have a job or career. I have spoken with countless players and they all say the same thing. Whenever they are working, all they think about is poker. My God, this game is worse than crack, I am starting to believe. It is such a great game and great exercise for your mind. Keeping your mind sharp is very important but everything should be done in moderation. People get caught up in the quest for knowledge, desire to get better, and the thrill of the win, and soon the word moderation is not even in their vocabulary.
In short, when playing this game, you must achieve a balance. If you have a job or career, you have to put that first and foremost. If you don’t have a job and poker is your job, then you need to find other hobbies and activities. You need to make time for friends and loved ones. The truth is, you will probably play better if you do. If you don’t take this game in moderation and achieve a good balance, you will soon find that all your friends are only cyberfriends. Your contact with people will consist of instant messaging, phone calls, discussion forums, and poker room chat boxes. And, soon enough, you will find yourself very lonely.
Tone it down a bit and pay attention to your life, because when these things happen, it’ll be very difficult to change it back.
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:14 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
The second is by another top internet player named brsavage and shows how he copes with the pressures of an all out poker lifestyle.
Todd Arnold (NSXT) recently wrote an article in Cardplayer College about the effects of poker consuming your life. I could not agree more with his message.
I am certainly not an all knowing individual, but I do think that my poker journey pretty much has covered a broad span of experiences. At one point I was:
-A losing player who tried poker as a hobby.
-An aggressive player who was wild as shit and won some tournaments based on pure testosterone.
-A dangerous player once I started becoming a student of the game
-A consistent winning player once I interacted and discussed poker theory and concepts with my best buddies Shawn Rice, Beanie, and Loewa79.
-A bad ass mofo once I learned how to recognize when a player was weak (thank you Shawn and Beanie).
-A live tournament player on the circuit
-A world champion in a game I don't really like (limit holdem, thank you Sheets and Bax, I can still remember the first day I ever played live under my backing deal with them, and I called Sheets and told him that the event for that day was limit and his response was "so the f*ck what".
-A disgruntled,whining, and rude player after going thru a huge and never ending run of bad beats
-A person who could care less about poker when my son was in intensive care fighting for his life.
-A refreshed and renewed player when I decided to focus on online poker and play live when I satellited into major events cheaply.
-A much better player when I vowed to limit how much I played, especially making sure that poker would not interfere with family and having a life outside of poker.
So, take it for what it's worth. I'm not knocking you guys that play a lot. I'm just telling you that it may be worth your while to really examine poker as a priority in your life. It doesn't matter whether you play recreationally, or professionally, don't let it screw up your existance as a human being on this planet.
I left a $200,000 a year job to play poker professionally, and I don't regret it for a second, it was an experience that I will always remember. I recently was given the opportunity to be the General Manager of a huge Ford dealership. I took it because I was given full autonomy to run things as I saw fit. I still play a couple of nights a week, and in the big Sunday tournaments. In the two months since I went back into the corporate world I have won 3 tournaments with $100,000k guarantees, plus a couple of other nice tournaments, all from a schedule that is about 10% of what a lot of guys play, and that works for ME. I can tell you this also, when your not worried about the money you can play poker correctly!
When I play now I am focused and refreshed, and I don't have that nagging feeling that I am neglecting the valuable people in my life. I see Todd has been on a roll lately, and I congratulate him on that, and I see it as no small coincidence that he has reinvented himself personally and professionally.
If you don't see me playing on a given night, I'm either spending time with the babies, watching my Tivo'd American Idol or CSI, or going to dinner and a movie with Amy since it's date night.
Find your balance,
Chris
Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:16 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
I will go into my thoughts on these articles at a later date, but right now one of my favourite tv programmes is on and my thoughts on this may get long winded 
So feel free to comment in the meantime 
Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:31 pm GMT by Dat_Dude
| wEbMaStEr wrote: | | right now one of my favourite tv programmes is on |
Nooooo. Forget TV...must...play...poker!
Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:35 pm GMT by 1988 TR
Well, Todd just bought a new black Ferrari 430, so things must be working out pretty good for him.
Maybe he makes more "coaching" now than he did playing?
On another note, my friend who used to post here is now in GA for the second time. He blames poker on a lot of bad things that has happenned in his life - Bankruptcy, divorce, failed relationships, etc.
Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:45 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Poker is a symptom of many people's problems, but it is never the cause. The cause is an addictive and escapist personality, and a general confusion of priorities.
A similar thing happened to me a little while ago, when I was trying to make a big run at it and qualify for the Bay 101. I cut off some of my friends, I didn't make enough time for my girlfriend, and I cut my classes a lot--in short, my priorities were very confused. I love Poker... I love it. But I have come close to dropping out of school twice, and that's outright stupid, because I can't make a good living on $5/$10 limit.
I've already seen 3 friends drop out to play professionally, and I don't aspire to have their lives at all--no girlfriends, the only friends they really have are each other, a shitty apartment they have to struggle to pay for, 14-hour days of multi-tabling on Party while eating the most nutrient-deficient diet known to man. Some of them even make decent money, but not as much as they could have with a job they'd need a college degree for.
As for me, I've had to do a lot of refocusing. I am about 8 months shy of graduating college, and I'm not going to screw it up now. I have dreams of a life that doesn't involve sitting at a Poker table 14 hours a day, 7 days a week. I want to play Poker for fun, and maybe to get some money. Someday, I absolutely dream of making it big and playing with the big boys. Who among us doesn't? But I need to be in a place where I'm not depending on making it big just to live--I've noticed that the less pressure there is, the better I play in general. What's more, I love my girlfriend a lot, and no hobby or game is worth sacrificing your relationship with the most important person in your life.
Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:14 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | Poker is a symptom of many people's problems, but it is never the cause. The cause is an addictive and escapist personality, and a general confusion of priorities.
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That is a great description. Describes my friend to a T.
Problem is, he still doesn't see it (but everyone else does).
Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:08 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Poker is a symptom of many people's problems, but it is never the cause. The cause is an addictive and escapist personality, and a general confusion of priorities. |
This is what alot of people want to think, but it is not always like that. Gambling (if I can call it that...any game with a relatively random payout of rewards) is very addictive, not only to humans. Believe or not you can make birds addicted to simple games with random payout of food and similar stuff. Much, much, much more addicted than they become to games where they always get rewards for simple actions or rewards on a regular basis.
In psychology we study some of these games' effect on both people and animals, both by using statistics, trait measurements, experiments and the (in my opinion) hedgehog, treehugging and scientifically useless crap about inner urges and escapism.
It is true to an extent that an 'addictive' personality trait can aid in making the problem worse, but people often like to think themselves that 'oh...he is easily addicted...he is weak' but this isn't true, the way the game is set up is addictive to almost anyone. The stuff about escapist personalities is largely a myth, in the same way it is often used on alcoholics and drug addicts
The way money games are made and played make them somewhat addictive to most people...actually I have little doubt that most of us who write here are in part 'addicted' to 'chasing the win' in poker. I think most will recognize the incredible feeling of 'running good' in poker and how much we miss it and want it when we don't.
A person who hasn't tried poker or some other money game won't have that feeling.
Anyone here can test themselves if they want too, think about quitting poker. Not playing for the next month...would you miss it, feel an urge to play or maybe think alot on your last session or key hands? How long was your longest session...has poker ever influenced your personal life in a negative way...did you adjust your personal life or your poker habits as a result of that?
And maybe most importantly. Have you ever played poker when it wasn't fun at all, but just kept going still?
Don't hide behind myths about weak personality being the key ingredient in addiction, because it isn't. Staying focused, in control and being aware of how something affects you is necessary for all people regardless of how nature and the environment made them become.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:10 am GMT by conolly
Poker doesn't really effect my lifestyle, if anything it somewhat helps it. I am new to the casino world, having played mostly home games since I am under age. Never deposited online, although friends have paid money back to me through online transfers so I have played online...
One friend of mine loves to discuss poker, we usually smoke a joint or two then have a long talk about poker and hockey...then go out. I love talking poker, but at the same time I know when I need to not play for a week or two; or now, leave the table before I bust.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:54 pm GMT by BeerWench13
I'm so fortunate and, I guess, lucky in this matter. Firstly, both the hubby and myself play. If one of us is playing, more than likely the other is sitting right next to them playing also, conquering the world on the other PC, watching TV or conversing when the player is not in a hand. We actually spend more time together since we started playing poker than we did before, at least one-on-one without the TV taking all of our attention from one another. We've also been married for 8 years and together for almost 13. We know everything there is to know about one another. Poker is great for discussions when we've run out of "How was your day?" small talk.
Also, we live in the middle two cities, but have a 30 minute commute to get to either. Before we started playing poker, during the week when we got home from work we rarely went out anywhere. We'd just driven 30 minutes to get home. Now, we have a game at least one weeknight every other week that gets us out of the house and socializing with people.
We've also gained a huge number of friends from poker that we probably wouldn't have even met had it not been for the game. Now, we regularly do things, not just play poker with this new group of friends.
Yes, I have an addictive personality and, though I suppress it a great deal, I'm an escapist too. I read a lot though, and that's where I get to escape. My addictions...well, you guys pretty much know what those are.
Poker hasn't affected my job at all. Yes, it's true that I'm at work right now typing this, but I've completed my to-do list for the day and I'd be surfing the net one way or the other. This actually is much more intellectually stimulating than searching for porn to send the hubby.
I do think that poker can have a negative effect on people if they allow it. As with beer, drugs or anything else addictive, you have to know where to draw the line. Yes, I'm obsessive, but I'm aware of it, so I can keep my poker "habit" in check. The key is to know yourself. Only you can determine where the line is between hobby and obsession.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:17 pm GMT by jimmer
i think i can speak for (almost) everyone when i say your title should be changed from How Does Poker Effect Your Life? to..........."Poker IS life, discuss........."
am i right????
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:27 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| BeerWench13 wrote: |
Poker hasn't affected my job at all. Yes, it's true that I'm at work right now typing this, but I've completed my to-do list for the day and I'd be surfing the net one way or the other. This actually is much more intellectually stimulating than searching for porn to send the hubby.
|
Wow, wife of the year material right there.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:19 pm GMT by howzit
i think a lot of us who played for over a year have been through these moments and i've had to come to accept these gambling tendencies i have. I ate and breathed poker for months and i'll admit it hindered my job, my friends, and my social life. It still does but thank god i've found balance. now going out with friends comes first.
now i don't have to race home to shower and get into a terrible game because i wanted the action so bad. now, it's excercise, eat, go for a few drinks, or watch the tele and log in an hour or two before sleep.
there's a lot of positives in poker: meeting new friends, intellectualy stimulating (i get a lot more pleasure from poker mentally than my job could ever provide.) and of course the money. I can do a lot of things i couldn't afford in just the last year.
travel, eat out as much as i want, save money on the side, go to concerts, whatever. the money's not bad at all but filling my life with expensive shit is not what i enjoy doing. it's enjoying the things in life with friends and not have to worry about it. that is an awesome feeling.
poker has been both cruel and good to me but as long it's not my entire being, i wouldn't give it up.
oh yeah, and bankroll management kids. if you don't have the roll, you can't get in the action.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:31 pm GMT by ScanX
back from pub and half drunk :
poker is my job as many of you know.
as a "pro", the poker stuff shouldnt affect your normal life...but it isnt as easy as it seems.
When u are in a downswing it can affect your mood, you can try to work on it and try to act like everythin is right for you but it's just hypocrisy more than often (especially when you're a bad loser like me :p )
It can "eat your brain" and all you think about is how long it's going to take you to win back all you've lost.
Dont get me wrong, it's not the compulsive attitude of the gambler who wants to break even. But as an experienced poker player you must know the patience and discipline it will take to do so.
The worse and best experience u can actually have is if the loss is real real bad and lasting for a few weeks...at the end you just laugh about it and it actually helps your social life.
Everyday is like "oh well, I've seen worse" or "this bad luck has lasted for so long it has to stop at some point", and it makes u stronger.
It might sound like a stereotype u could read in a book, but you will be facing this situation at some point.
You'll still be pissed off as every normal person should be, but you'll be more fatalistic too.
In my "pro" life, poker has been overwhelming, a lot more than it should have been...almost getting me into a depressive state of mind sometimes.
Having a girlfriend recently, spending more time outside of the poker world, going to pub more frequently...all in all, not putting poker on top of my priority list has helped me so much.
You play when you really want to do it and that is SO important. (I cannot stress that point enough)
Not only does it reduce the frustration, but it helps your focus a lot more.
Once again I know this may sound very obvious, but knowing how addictive poker can be I'm just sharing my kinda short but very "intense" experience.
Time to sober up now :)
EDIT : I hadnt read the 2 original articles Webmaster had posted before writing this...I just read them now, looks like everyone (who plays poker for a living or more than normal) goes thru this at some point.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:32 pm GMT by JackKingOff
I am going to have to say wow..... this thread has been a real eye-opener... i have noticed latly i have been quite antisocial cept when i go to home games... otherwise im doing other stuff and i cant play... but occasionally i do think about it... I think some lifestyle changes SHOULD be made
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:13 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
ScanX, if you don't mind me asking, what stakes are you making a living off of and how much have you made so far?
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:15 am GMT by ScanX
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | ScanX, if you don't mind me asking, what stakes are you making a living off of and how much have you made so far? |
NL 5/10 and I made...more than I would have with a real job ;)
sorry I'm not giving out that number anymore
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:32 am GMT by thetank
After moving cities to Glasgow 6 months ago as an internet professional I found some new friends through poker. Just as well as I wasn't going to meet folk through work, as I have no "job", and not through the girlfriend, whom I've split with. (Wasn't down to poker, she was always supportive of that, was due to her being a little psycho)
Problem is, none of my new friends ever seem up for doing anything non-poker related much of the time. If I socialize at all it is at a home game or down the local card club. The numbr of pints I've had in the last 6 months (in Glasgow) where the playing of AKo or similar was not discussed, I could count on the fingers of one hand.
To go out for non-poker beers would be great, I try to make it home about once a month to do this.
Recently decided to make an effort and recruit some local pals who don't play cards. Just haven't got round to it yet, to busy with poker it seems. Nearly 3 months into a 4 month misssion to get Supernova on Pokerstars and the plan is to seek out balance in my life after this. The diet starts tomorrow kinda thing.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:35 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Wow, wife of the year material right there. |
Thanks, TR. He's spoiled, it's true, but not nearly as spoiled as I am.
I recently got a life insurance policy and I told him that when I die he has to wait 6 months to remarry and should spend most of the money on himself first. His response: "Where am I going to find another woman who will watch porn with me, play poker with me and never ask 'Where have you been?' or 'What time will you be home?'" That was one of the nicest things he's ever said. He was drunk at the time, so I don't doubt the honesty of the statement. A drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts, after all.
Jimmer, love your avatar. I can see you have good taste. :D
| Quote: | | When u are in a downswing it can affect your mood, you can try to work on it and try to act like everythin is right for you but it's just hypocrisy more than often (especially when you're a bad loser like me :p ) |
Excellent point, Scan. I'm a pretty bad loser myself. Well, I do okay in live games because it's usually because I made a mistake or I wanted them to call with their inferior hand and they just got lucky.
Online is a different matter though. I don't know what it is, but the beats I take online make me feel rather hostile. I have made a concerted effort to make sure that I don't take it out on the hubby when I feel this way. I usually grab a few beers and step out for a smoke or 10 to cool off before I will discuss poker or the play with the hubby at all. If I'm quiet and not talking about it, he knows what happened and is really good at distracting me by talking about some other topic.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:28 am GMT by JohnnyCache
MY GOD MAN
AFFECT.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:32 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| JohnnyCache wrote: | MY GOD MAN
AFFECT. |
You shouldn't let it effect you so much. It can manifest itself in aggressive behavior.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:43 am GMT by golddog
Yes, that can result in some rather bad effects.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:24 pm GMT by Miss_J
I can honestly say i'd rather go and play a poker tounament then hang out with my friends. For instance my best friend has the day off tomorow and so do i, which is rare, but i'm going to the casino. I've never been much of a social butterfly anyways. so i guess it's not really that odd... Also, if it's a special occasion like camping or something then i'd choose friends over poker. but for the most part...it's poker.
I also have a hard time concentrating on my work while i'm at work. I think about poker. But that be cause my job kinda sucks, and if I had a super fun job, i might not think about poker so much.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:38 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I think about poker. But that be cause my job kinda sucks, and if I had a super fun job, i might not think about poker so much. |
I have a great job that I've been doing for over 6 years. I don't even have to think most of the time to accomplish my duties (and the duties of some other slackers who don't pull their weight here). I still think about poker all the time when I'm here. I'm in love with the game and it's much more challenging than my job or any job probably will ever be.
Poker also transfers over to real life. The other day I was talking to an acquaintance and realized for the first time that he's a chronic liar. I could just tell. Why? Well my ability to read people has really blossomed since I started playing poker regularly.
| Quote: | | I can honestly say i'd rather go and play a poker tounament then hang out with my friends. |
Same here for the most part, but I'm fortunate because nearly all of my friends play poker so you never know when a party will turn into a poker game.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:42 pm GMT by Miss_J
Ya see with me and my fiancee, we have our "poker" friends and our "non poker" friends. The non poker friends are the ones we've known for years and should be super excited to hang out with. no the case.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:45 pm GMT by BeerWench13
Ahh. I can understand that.
Most of my friends that I had before I started playing poker also got into poker either before, at the same time or just after we did. Birds of a feather....
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:49 pm GMT by Miss_J
ya our closest friends didn't pick up on it. they will play occasionally very occasionally, but i hate playing with them so i avoid it.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:01 pm GMT by BeerWench13
The same goes for me with my neighbor. She'll play occasionally just to be part of what we're doing, but I HATE playing with her. She's clueless, shows her cards half the time, bluffs all the time unless she has a hand and, no lie, she actually asked in the middle of a hand if 3 of a kind was better than two pair. Everyone folded when she bet. She did have trips too because she exposed them to her half of the table. She drives me crazy so I try not to tell her when we're having a game because she's already into "the house" for about $85. The last time she asked if she could play I told her that I couldn't float her so she'd have to put the cash up front. She decided just to drink and watch instead. So, next time we have a game I'm going to do the same in hopes that she'll decline play.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:00 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
Interesting reading, thanks.
Ok, The reason why these posts struck such a chord with me is because at the beginning of this year my wife told me she thought we should split up. Her main reason for this was because we led very different lives and didn't really have all that much in common anymore.
Without going too much into it i actually agree with her that for a fair time we have effectively been over. and in a way i am a little relieved that she called it before i did.
She didn't cite poker in itself for this, but i did feel for a time that the amount of time i spent playing poker may have been a contributing facote, even tho she had always been very supportive of my playing.
I feel now that i am in agreement with tame deuces that the amount of time playing poker may have been more a symptom of the relationship rather than the problems in the relationship being my poker playing.
So, to look at my life in the terms of, is poker interfering with life...
I hate work right now, as I told Geno, work is crazy right now, for the last 3 months i've rarely been home before 6:30pm (usual working week is 37.5 hours ) But work hasn't been effected due to poker (It easily could be!) But i basically get to play about 3 tourneys a week which sucks!
Social life: I have never really been a nightclubby person, but i do enjoy an evening in the pub with friends or work colleagues. It's something i do maybe every couple of weeks, it's no biggie for me, i enjoy a night out, but i am a home person, much happier in the comfort of my own home than roaming the wintry streets of Scotland at night. It's just the way i am.
Other interests: I still make time for golf 2 or 3 times a week (mostly driving range due to weather right now) Bowling season starts in a few weeks and i am happy that i am going to have a lot of free time for that. (yes that is REALLY sad ) and i still watch about 6 hours of TV a week. All this and i still play poker for about 20-30 hours a week! That's pretty balanced right?
So, where do i go from here? Well i'm not about to jump into another relationship (altho casual sex is welcome  ) I think i am going to try and play poker as much as possible, without impinging on my other activities, cos i really feel this is the time for me to chase the dream and really establish myself as a poker player, without the constraints of being in a marriage.
So yes, I have become yet another single poker player 
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:10 pm GMT by supafrey
Poker rarely affects me outside of my little online persona. I get a bit down at nights, if I've had a bad day, but nobody has ever seen/had to deal with that, and the feeling is practically gone the next day.
I do play several hours a day, though, and some of the people i care about have expressed their disdain for what I do. I made it pretty clear right off the bat that I'm not going to listen to any "advice" when it comes to poker, but I've far from anti-social. I really don't sit around thinking about playing poker, though, as the excitement from the game is all but gone for me...
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:20 pm GMT by BeerWench13
Webby, I'm sorry to hear that things are not working out in your marriage. However, unlike most of those that are married-but-divorcing or divorced, it sounds like the two of you have reached an amiable agreement. I hope things work out for both of you. I'll see what I can do about finding a single woman out your way for a little casual sex.
| Quote: | | I hate work right now |
This is normal. There are very few in this world who like work. I like my job, but I can think of a million things I'd rather be doing than sitting here dealing with assholes on the phone all day. And, I hate work every morning when I have to drag my lazy ass out of bed.
| Quote: | | I have never really been a nightclubby person, but i do enjoy an evening in the pub with friends or work colleagues. It's something i do maybe every couple of weeks, it's no biggie for me, i enjoy a night out, but i am a home person, much happier in the comfort of my own home |
There's nothing wrong with that. I'm a homebody as well and only generally venture out for a poker game, a good concert (NIN on Tuesday was excellent!) or the occasional night out for dinner. I don't go to pubs/bars much as I am usually designated driver and it sucks to go watch everyone else get plastered out of their mind when you're sober.
| Quote: | | i am going to try and play poker as much as possible, without impinging on my other activities, cos i really feel this is the time for me to chase the dream and really establish myself as a poker player |
Go for it! Every cloud has a silver lining. Maybe becoming a pro player is yours. I wish you well in your quest. Just remember the little people like us that you used to associate with when you make it big.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:27 pm GMT by Miss_J
right now i'm at work, and i can't wait to get home, put on comfy pj's and hit up some sng's. who's with me? :D
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:31 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | right now i'm at work, and i can't wait to get home, put on comfy pj's and hit up some sng's. who's with me? |
I'm in! I'll bring the wine and beer if you supply the snacks. :D
| Quote: | | I really don't sit around thinking about playing poker, though, as the excitement from the game is all but gone for me |
That's one of the saddest things I've read about poker from any player. Now I'm depressed. 
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:33 pm GMT by golddog
Webby, sorry to hear about that. No matter how well it goes, I'm sure that it's very, very difficult.
I don't think poker affects my life too much. Like a few of the posters, I've never been that much of a going-out person, and by the time I get home, do the errands, etc, etc I only end up playing 4-5 hours a week.
But I could just be in the denial stage too.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:44 pm GMT by UrAteUp
I have nothing to add here except for the following:
Webby...sorry to hear about the marrige problems but keep your chin up dude. You'll meet your Wench sooner or later.
1988TR...why do you think we want to clone Wench?... 
Tamed...dude I remember all that stuff you talked about in my college days....fascinating stuff.
Poker is a big part of my life. Can I stop playing it? Yes I can and do. Do I like to stop? Yes at times I do. Sometimes it just feels like too much poker is worse then not enough. Anyone else ever feel this? Like you know your going to go on tilt if you stay playing any longer? Or your gonna start getting mad when a donk gets lucky and burys you?
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:40 pm GMT by snoogins47
I wrote a long-ass reply to this and subsequently scrapped it, but I've had enough drinks tonight to re-do it all! Your loss, folks. I'm sure there's like, one or two people, who actually care about my story though. First, I'll copy-paste what I had saved before I scrapped it.
Time to throw in my two cents, I guess. I've been meaning to write something like this for a while, and I think it's probably as good a time as any.
As many people know, I sorta stumbled my way into playing 'professionally' and have been doing so for what's closing in on a year and a half.
In many respects, it's been great. Though about 60% of my enjoyment of the game was totally drained within a few months of 'going pro,' I still enjoy it. The finances couldn't have come at a better time: I spent a little bit on fun stuff, like more guitar/musical gear, etc... I've got me a 'new' car now, which is good, because my old car persistently felt like it was about 2 hours from falling apart... I was able to fly out to California to see my girlfriend very frequently: I probably spent close to 2 months of last year out there... given that her ultra-Christian university doesn't allow, ya know, boys within 500 yards of a girl's dorm without fear of smiting, I had to stay in random hotels for all of that, so it was EXTREMELY far from something I could have done in my poor-student days, or my poor-workin' stiff days. (Though to be fair, I really kinda wish I had all that money back, now!)
I've also, in a weird twist, lived at home with the parents for this 'career' so far. Long story short (in a Snoogins post? HA) my mother has been unable to work for... what's probably been 3 years now, maybe 4. Through that, there's been a whole host of stupid conflicts: worker's comp, social security disability, etc... The first few months of my 'career,' I intended to save up for a bit, and move out. That would've put me at moving out about a year ago today. As I became more aware of my parent's financial situation, and my mom developed another string of oh-so-fun medical problems, I quickly re-assessed. My father, already working two jobs, said he was busy looking to take on a THIRD job... another full time one, because he couldn't possibly bear to be forced to sell our house. A backhand across the face, a couple bucks, and online poker saved our house/saved my dad from working himself to death before he hits 60.
I mean, I've also met you bastards, which in some sick twisted way, I wouldn't trade for the world.
It hasn't all been f*cking lollipops and unicorns and.. f*cking teletubbies or anything, believe me. It's time to pause this post for a cigarette break.
So, time for the fun/bad parts, I guess.
I've been a bit on the 'completely nutso' side for some time now. When I went off to college in '03, I wasn't ready for anything, and never felt like i had any clue what I wanted to do when I grew up. I was never content.
The progression that I've gone through was almost certainly inevitable, but poker surely didn't help. Well, I take that back: poker, messing with my head, may have made my 'breakdown' happen much faster, which might have the end result of my getting life back on track much earlier. (I prefer a much less 'harsh' term than breakdown, typically, but oh well)
I didn't quit school to play cards. I quit school because I hated school, and couldn't go anywhere with it. I worked for a while, and all that happened was that a)my job began to suck more and more, and b)I began to make more playing poker than I could in my job. So I quit. And then, necessarily from that, I became 'pro.' Funny how that works.
It started out pretty great. Sometime around second quarter last year, however, things went south. At the time, it was my worst downswing ever... and it still is. I have this awesome tendency to get completely brutalized the first time I take a shot at a new limit that's higher than I'm used to. A wonderful coincidence, I'll tell you what.
My first day taking a shot at NL400... well, Scan was there for some of it, but not all. Within about 3 hours, I was over $2000 poorer, and it still feels like taking some cleats to the groin when you're covering second, and the lead runner tries to break up the DP. Actually, that's not sufficient: you know that period of about 10 seconds right after it happens, where the pain is so bad you don't even feel it, and you feel like you're going to throw-up? That's what it felt like.
Formerly, I think one of my strongest points was being able to weather the swings. I'd laugh at just about any result, whether it be amazingly good, or brutally poor. 200BB downswings just made me laugh at life a little more. Same with 200BB upswings. As my emotions started to crack, so did my resolve at the poker table, and it got to be almost too much to take. I recovered financially from the brutality of this downswing, but the wind was out of my sails. The following six months or so, I barely played at all. I sat down sometime around the new year and figured out I must have 'averaged' 6-7 hours a week for 2005. When I probably averaged 20+ for the first few months of it, that's a pretty pitiful state of affairs. When I was 'on top of the world' poker was great, even if I was losing. When the emotions went to shit, poker got almost unbearable.
Well, blah blah, fast forward to the beginning of this year, and I finally feel like I totally snapped. Then the girl of ~3 years left me ('left me' is such a weird term in a long distance relationship... I guess you could say she 'left me' long before that), coupled with other unpleasantness that happened around late January this year, and well... shit wasn't coming up Milhouse anymore. (The girl didn't leave me for poker's sake, but it's quite possible that 'I need to find myself' equated to 'You've gone f*cking crazy,' and if so, Poker didn't exactly help)
After ~ a month off, I find myself now, with a very vague plan of what I want to do with my life, and I'm enjoying poker to a degree I haven't in probably a year. Which is good.
I don't know exactly how to wrap this up well, or say even 1/10th of what I want to say about it, but I'm gonna go ahead and try anyway.
I've had the distinction (that most of us regulars have probably had, though I don't necessarily know to what degree) of playing poker both in an intensely healthy state of mind/manner, and what, in retrospect, is probably far from it. And I've come to appreciate the damage that poker potentially can do, despite how much I love it.
The most obvious comparison for me, is Marijuana. There are plenty of people who use it occasionally as an outlet, to relax, etc. etc... and it's probably quite healthy (let's not get into the debate... smoking in itself is probably not 'healthy,' I mean in an overall, more emotional sense). Some folks go farther, and probably use it in a manner that genuinely improves their life. A handful of people even use it to an extent that it helps them achieve a level of spiritual awakening/self awareness that may not have been possible without it.
Then there's everybody else.... they're just pot-heads.
Poker is an awesome game, that is both unbelievably simple, and impossibly complex. It can be rewarding in tons of ways, and even for a losing player can be a very healthy form of entertainment.
It can seriously wreak havoc with you, too... I, for one, have not done a good job throughout my short 'career' of maintaining a balanced life. Nowhere near. And in moments of emotional frailty, poker has done a great job of elbowing me in the gut and saying "f*ck you, loser."
I fully believe that poker players can be a well-adjusted, healthy lot. It's financially rewarding as hell (I mean, would I have been able to support myself working 8 hours a week at the Super 8 motel? Fuhgeddaboutit!) but I warn anybody, even those that are just casual players... be careful. It seems like Poker offers more opportunity than most things to take over a life, or otherwise screw it up.
Webby: I don't have anything to say about the marriage shit, because I know you have your head squarely on your shoulders. Any 'advice' I give is something you already know, and I'm too much of a young punk to really make re-iterating useless advice ring true to you. The important part: bowling? Hell yeah! I fell into semi-serious bowling for a year or two because my brother was quite serious (Academic All-American in college for a year, until he got fed up for some reason and quit) and really, even though I sucked, and bowling is more than enough to make fun of you for: bowling rocks. I never booked higher than 175, but I had a damn great time doing it. Golf sucks though, because I suck at it. QED.
UrAteUp: Reading "You'll meet Wench sooner or later" seriously made you gain about 400 respect points in my book.
GoldDog: Don't stress out about it, but I advise you to keep the 'maybe I'm just in denial' thing always in the back of your head. It might not be true, but it's definitely best to keep those sorts of things in check at all times, as I'm sure you already know.
As somebody who has been living the 'pro' lifestyle without any of the glamour and only the chunk of the financial aspect that comes from sheer laziness... The most important words of advice I can give to anybody are thus:
Make sure you're constantly evaluating what the f*ck you're doing in life
I would NEVER tell anybody not to go pro. I would NEVER tell anybody not to take poker seriously. But especially with something like poker, it is so astoundingly easy for shit to go completely wrong, and for you to be oblivious to it. Take a step back. Evaluate your life. Any semblance of taking ANYTHING seriously is doomed for failure if your life is unbalanced and spiralling out of control. Poker is just worst than most. Get out there and do some shit. If you're convinced that your entire life has to be drawn up around poker... fine! Make sure it is. Find a significant other that accepts it/you can share that part of your life with. If this isn't the case, make DEAD sure that poker doesn't consume your life, or at least, make sure it doesn't ruin it. That goes for anything else you do, too (Even bowling!)
I think my philosophy on that is very similar to my parents... and I don't think I can even begin to communicate how blessed I am for having them around... I'm firmly convinced if I said "I'm going to move to Colombia and be a drug-lord" that after a good long period of 'Dude, are you SURE you want to do this?" they'd say "Well, if those are your dreams, go follow them" and buy me a plane ticket. That's kinda how I look at poker. For every single one of you, no matter if you're currently a pro (You nut-peddling waffle boy) or if you're just somebody who plays $5 SNGs a few times a week.... that's the most important thing I can EVER tell you.
Do whatever the hell you want to do. And do it f*cking right. Just make sure that you really want to do it.
That's my view on poker, and how it affected my life so far. I'll let you all know what it does in the future.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:46 am GMT by BeerWench13
Wow, snoogs. I don't know what to say to all of that except bless you for taking care of your parents. So many kids and adults today take their parents for granted and don't look at what they may be going through. I'm fortunate enough to have parents that would support me and have supported me whether or not they thought I was making the right choice. I try to do for them now, but they're as stubborn as I am (the nut doesn't fall far from the tree) and generally won't accept any help from me even though probably all of the debt that they have stems from having 3 daughters (my dad is a saint!) and sending all of us to private school from kindergarten through senior year and to college. I knew you had a good heart, but I didn't have any idea you were like that. You could've taken the money you won and moved out and left them to fend for themselves. You're a big person.
I dropped out of college for the same reason that you did. I just hated it and, having been on a college level my junior and senior year in high school, I was bored to tears during my freshman and sophomore years. It was great for meeting new friends and the parties were spectacular though.
Bowling: I bowled with a league for a few years. I really went for the beer, but I got to be a decent bowler. My best score was a 189, but I was on a roll (no pun intended) that night.
Golf: The most frustrating yet relaxing sport there is. I haven't had a chance to play since last year, but I'll be playing again soon once the weather breaks. Webby, I'm jealous that you get to play so often. I usually don't have time or it's cold as hell. On the nice days I've been stuck at work. Figures.
I don't play poker for a living. I have a jobby job for that. Actually, we live off the hubby's income and mine goes into savings. I won't go broke if I lose at poker because I'm a miser with my money and won't ever spend more that I can afford to lose. I spend on poker less than most women spend shopping in a month (I don't shop). Hell, I spend more on beer and cigs than I do on poker. Maybe I have a problem? Naw. Not me.
Denial's fun.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:56 am GMT by UrAteUp
| snoogins47 wrote: | | UrAteUp: Reading "You'll meet Wench sooner or later" seriously made you gain about 400 respect points in my book. |
Does this mean you like me finally Snoogins?....
Seriously, a complement like that means alot to me Dude. To gain respect from a young guy I hold great respect for...well there are just no words to describe it.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:39 am GMT by golddog
Best of luck, Snoogins. While you, like myself, tend to ramble on, it's clear that you have a head on your shoulders, have recognized some of the problems, and and are working on figuring out how to address those same things.
I wonder if people are attracted to bowling, golf, and poker for similar reasons: what other 'sports' can one participate in while simultaneously having a beer?
That's something I haven't done for years. Used to be in the 150-160 range in my younger days.
Bowling, I mean, not golf. Although that's (sadly) not far from reality either.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:51 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | what other 'sports' can one participate in while simultaneously having a beer? |
I don't know, but if you find another, please let me know.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:53 am GMT by UrAteUp
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | Quote: | | what other 'sports' can one participate in while simultaneously having a beer? |
I don't know, but if you find another, please let me know. |
Is sex a sport? Because I am sure Wench has had a few while having sex...
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:56 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Is sex a sport? Because I am sure Wench has had a few while having sex... |
That's usually during warm up and cool off. I don't usually drink when I "work out."
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:35 pm GMT by supafrey
There's pretty big differences between identifying issues and solving them.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:12 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
But identifying them at least makes you self aware... even if you then ignore them
Snoogy: That's one hell of a post, I think the second of yours that i've read all the way thru (not because your posts suck but, well, you know ) I started it before work and finished it when i got home because it was THAT interesting!
Like you, i can't really add anything to your post, you seem fairly well adjusted and maybe even self-aware  kudos to you and i hope things go well, I am fairly sure you will cope no matter what comes, (Columbian drug-lording could actually be less stressful that life in poker?)
1 thing: I should make it clear at this point about the bowling...
I know it's an easy assumption for North Americans to make that i'm talking about Ten pin bowling, I'm not. All will become clear in another post 
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:15 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I know it's an easy assumption for North Americans to make that i'm talking about Ten pin bowling, I'm not. |
You know, webby, I thought about that as I was posting. Kind of like whenever someone mentions football. I immediately note their location so I know to which sport they are actually referring.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:57 pm GMT by supafrey
You're a competitive cannabis smoker TOO?!
I've been a professional Bowl-er for like.. two years now.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:01 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I've been a professional Bowl-er for like.. two years now. |
Rookie.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:01 pm GMT by Skribbles
| supafrey wrote: | You're a competitive cannabis smoker TOO?!
I've been a professional Bowl-er for like.. two years now. |
Looks like we may have to put in a team for the PBT!
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:02 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| wEbMaStEr wrote: | 1 thing: I should make it clear at this point about the bowling...
I know it's an easy assumption for North Americans to make that i'm talking about Ten pin bowling, I'm not. All will become clear in another post |
It's curling without the ice, quoits/horseshoes without the big pieces of metal or lawn darts without the fatalities.
Of course, get a few Scotsmen together with alcohol and recreational equipment and lord knows what activities become dangerous.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:02 pm GMT by snoogins47
I don't allow for foreign idioms. Football is football, "chips" are chips, not fries. And for the love of God, I don't smoke fags.
Anyway, to be honest, I was aware that there's all sorts of weird forms of 'bowling' (Oh yes, I've been to the 'bowling hall of fame' in St Louis) but I wasn't aware that 'bowling' referred to a different sport across that big ol' pond. Learn somethin new every day.
GoldDog: If you haven't tried a bunch of other sports while drinking a beer, you're missing out. Drunk basketball is particularly fun.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:09 pm GMT by Skribbles
In my limited poker "career", about 2 years serious play now, the effect has been nothing but positive.
I am an extremely competitive person and this gives me an outlet. Since I've given up most of the sports I played, I don't know why, poker is a great release.
The money factor has been extremely positive. It has payed off my student loans and allowed me to furnish my apartment with new furniture and toys (toys being TV & stereo).
Socially I don't think it has affected me at all. I play when I have nothing to do and am sitting at home watching TV. I'd much rather be out with friends than sitting on my ass. The girlfriend doesn't have a problem with it right now as she is busy with work and school.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:15 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | It's curling without the ice, quoits/horseshoes without the big pieces of metal or lawn darts without the fatalities. |
Well, it's not a sport until someone loses an eye.
| Quote: | | Drunk basketball is particularly fun. |
I have to admit to having done this myself, but it was just a group of us playing around and we were all drunk. I actually did fairly well. Just had to say "Check it out, titties at 3 o'clock" and I was unguarded and able to shoot over all of those 6'+ guys. Men are so easy. :D
Drunken football (American) is not as easy, however you don't feel any pain when you get tackled. The next day is rough though.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:55 pm GMT by supafrey
You sound downright Canadian, wenchie.
Posted Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:37 am GMT by Hungry4Knowledge
This post brought me way down.. :/ I gotta get some fresh air What i do those times i dont play poker (not very often) is workout with my friends... Ofcourse we are talkin about the game, but its still taking a break.... :D
Posted Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:16 pm GMT by JohnnyCache
| Miss_J wrote: | | right now i'm at work, and i can't wait to get home, put on comfy pj's and hit up some sng's. who's with me? :D |
Right now I'm looking from my credit card to newegg, thinking, "If I buy this laptop I can play at work"
It would be easy for me to say poker doesn't 'effect' my daily life much. It doesn't. I don't play every day. Sometimes I go a week or two.
But it DOES occupy space in my mind, all the time.
They say many people who win a big jackpot their first time gambling become compulsive, and I think it's related to that - poker is one of the first things in my life I've really gotten, where the light came on and said, "son, at this you've got a real game. You've got the makings of a bill paying hustle right here."
And that simultainiously edifies and cripples me at the table. Sometimes I get a little too "Lets pay the bills" and sit around playing Scottish Poker all night...other times I get a little to cute and say, "Who the hell do these guys think they ARE playing with me?"
And both cost me money...
Posted Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:35 am GMT by UrAteUp
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | Quote: | | I've been a professional Bowl-er for like.. two years now. |
Rookie. |
Both of you are a couple Bowl-ing rookies... kids now days...
| Snoogins wrote: | | Looks like we may have to put in a team for the PBT! |
Winner of the PBT gets the cannibis cup?
Johnny I know what you mean when you say poker is on your mind alot. I find I am at work running hand histories through my head. I find I will be walking through a store with my wife and picturing hands I played running through my head. It goes on and on and on.
People I work with all know I love to play poker and go to casinos. I talk to many about poker and casinos. They often ask me advice and a few who do play poker will ask me how I would play a certain hand that they recently encountered. They also know I am smart enough not to let it become a bad habit. The most important thing is the wife knows this as well and she loves that about me. She knows how easy it is to let something you like or love become an addiction and respects the fact that I have fun playing poker and other forms of gambling yet I do not let them become an addiction for me.
The wife and I will often set together at one of my computers while I play poker. We sip a few drinks and we talk about the day or about the game. It pays off because it creates quality time with each other. She enjoys watching my competitive spirit at play and I enjoy teaching her about a wonderful game that I know she is getting good at based on our last home game (she cleaned out her nephew in one hand when she beat his A high flush with her straight flush).
Poker is a big part of my life and I wouldn't change that now, nor will I in the future. I do hope to get more fishing in this year though....
Posted Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:10 pm GMT by howzit
hey snoogs, you 21 yet?
Posted Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:21 pm GMT by Geno
Judging by his posts, I'd say he is about 9, 10 at the outside.
Poker has been having a seriously detrimental effect on my mood lately as it's all been a big downslope in 2006. Time for an extended break cos it's eating my brain right now 
Posted Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:27 am GMT by BeerWench13
Thank you!! I am truly flattered. :D
| Quote: | | But it DOES occupy space in my mind, all the time. |
Same here. I even dream poker occasionally. I just can't seem to beat Doyle even in my sleep though. I can fly, I can go under water for extensive periods of time without air, but Doyle takes me out every time.
| Quote: | | And that simultainiously edifies and cripples me at the table. Sometimes I get a little too "Lets pay the bills" and sit around playing Scottish Poker all night...other times I get a little to cute and say, "Who the hell do these guys think they ARE playing with me?" |
Ditto. I hate the days where I'm timid and I hate the days where I feel that everyone's just bullying me and I end up paying them off. It's those days in between where I profit. When I've had a few drinks, but I'm not drunk, I can read what everyone has with an uncanny amount of accuracy and I can sense when it's time to quit and actually do. Those are the days that keep me coming back even when I'm having abysmal luck. It's like that perfect hole you play in golf. No matter how poorly you played the other 17, that one perfect hole just makes you want to do it again.
| Quote: | | I have fun playing poker and other forms of gambling yet I do not let them become an addiction for me. |
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't an addict. However, I know how to control that side of me. I know when to say when. I would never put my mortgage payment on the line for a poker game or any other form of gambling. Yes, I guess it's still a "hobby", but it does occupy a great deal of my thoughts and time.
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