Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:06 pm GMT by Gunslinger
OK, here's the scenario: I was playing a low-stakes NL cash game, and I got KK in the big blind. UTG raises to 3XBB, and I was prepared to re-raise, when I see everyone else fold to me. I decide to just call, because now, I'm last to act and I don't have to isolate him, and I'll be out of position against him. I figure it's better here to not announce I have a top 3 starting hand.
Flop comes A-x-x, I check/call a medium bet.
Turn comes K, I check/call another medium bet.
River is a blank, I bet the pot, he calls, turns over AQ, and I win the hand.
I'm confident he called me at the end because he couldn't put me on my hand because of my pre-flop play (even though AK beat him as well), but I don't want to be results oriented. Was my pre-flop thought process correct? Thoughts or critiques?
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:24 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I think it's a fine play, and re-raising would have been fine too. I would have hated that flop though...
My only question is why didn't you raise on the turn if you were planning to bet the river anyway?
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:08 am GMT by Gunslinger
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | I think it's a fine play, and re-raising would have been fine too. I would have hated that flop though...
My only question is why didn't you raise on the turn if you were planning to bet the river anyway? |
Good question. I'm still learning the intricacies of post flop play. I guess my reasoning at the time was, I was representing a decent yet weaker hand than his, maybe he thinks I'm hoping for a miracle river card, and the river bet looks like a weak steal attempt. Also I guess I thought there was a greater chance he would call that bet for a showdown than call a sudden show of strength on the turn. Would it have been better to just raise the turn and hope he doesn't back down?
Thanks for your comments.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:09 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Would it have been better to just raise the turn and hope he doesn't back down? |
It depends on the type of player he is and, more importantly, what type of player he thinks you are. A big raise on the turn and a weak bet on the river may look like a bluff atttempt that went awry and you may get action on the river as well.
I don't think you played the hand poorly. You went with your instincts that you could extract more from your opponent by showing weakness preflop. Also, I think you'd have gotten a call or even a reraise on the turn had you raised. I don't think there was any way he was folding on the river either unless he got a good read on you.
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:12 pm GMT by snoogins47
I think his bet size on the turn +stack sizes are important to note here... but the more interesting issue, I think, is what you're representing. Calling, then leading the river like that may seem at first to scream 'bluff,' but what the hell sort of a bluffing hand actually plays like that? If the flop is two-suited, you can represent the busted flush draw, but if not, I think in general the range of hands that you will get your river bet called with, and the range of hands your opponent will be willing to give you action if you raise the the turn, probably aren't much different. You can probably squeak more out of him by going ahead and popping the turn... and this is especially true, given that the majority of the time after betting the turn he's got Ax or better. (or occasionally, a weak hand that probably won't give you action regardless)
That said, I think my preferred line on this turn, given the prior action, is to come right out betting. That's probably the best way to generally make it seem like you could have absolutely anything, as well as the best way to make second best-hands really hang themselves.
Also, what's the plan when you check-call the flop?
Posted Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:40 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| snoogins47 wrote: |
Also, what's the plan when you check-call the flop? |
My guess: Spiking a K. 
(yes, yes, I'm joking, nobody feel insulted here)
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:45 pm GMT by Gunslinger
| snoogins47 wrote: | | Also, what's the plan when you check-call the flop? |
His flop bet was half the pot, so it could have been nothing more than a continuation bet, and I was willing to take one card off, if he has crap then maybe he's scared of my smooth calls. If the K didn't come on the turn (and certainly if another ace did), I'm sure I would have been check/folding unless he made pathetic bets where the pot odds required a call.
Wow, when I started this thread I was mostly concerned with whether my pre-flop reasoning was sound, but you've all given me great insight into extracting the most money from someone in this situation, and that's been even more helpful! Thanks guys (and gal  ).
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:16 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Gunslinger wrote: |
His flop bet was half the pot, so it could have been nothing more than a continuation bet, and I was willing to take one card off, if he has crap then maybe he's scared of my smooth calls. If the K didn't come on the turn (and certainly if another ace did), I'm sure I would have been check/folding unless he made pathetic bets where the pot odds required a call. |
Remember that (apart from the K) the best card that can fall on the turn for you is an A! If another A comes I would be very inclined to raise or see a showdown with my kings.
Think of the hands:
1.) What hands did you beat on the flop that will only beat you if an ace hits the turn?
2.) And when an ace hits the turn is it more or less likely that your opponent has one in his hand?
3.) Will an ace on the turn put you farther behind any of villain's possible hands? Go through them and check. 
Put those three together and you have a pretty good combination of logic in your possible favour.
Also, if the turn card could complete a possible draw on the board, I'd probably also raise the turn. I mean....since I'm 'still hanging around', why not bluff if the situation turns out to be a good one for it.
|
|
