Could anyone get away from this? |
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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:05 pm GMT by Geno
http://www.pokerhand.org/?271916
Barf. I guess the re-raise reeked of 56s 
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Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:12 pm GMT by BeerWench13
Nope. I'm going broke with this hand every time unless it's live and I pick up on a tell. Even then, I'd probably override that little voice and pay it off.
Yuck!!! 
That hand just sucks.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:59 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Nah. I would have seen that one coming and folded preflop saving me a ton of money. You will learn to do that when you have as much experience as I do.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:16 pm GMT by UrAteUp
Yikes...I hate these. I can't say you misplayed it because you played it like anyone else would have. The only thing I might have done differently is your pre-flop raise. I usually like doing a 4-5xBB raise pre-flop with AX hands. I want to knock those hands like suited connectors out of the hand altogether. All in all though I would have went broke too.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:35 pm GMT by Geno
I think what compounded my misery was that a few hands earlier on another table this had happened:
http://www.pokerhand.org/?271912
I figured on both hands I was looking good. Such is life 
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:37 pm GMT by 1988 TR
Nah, I thought you played the hand well.
The J7 hand... I'm guessing when you got all in on the river, you might have figured you were in trouble.... Sucks that he rivered a 3 outer, but if he had a Jack, you were only winning if he had a 2 or 4 as a kicker...
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:40 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Anyone who claims they could lay that down is a complete donkey. No pro in the world would ever fold that hand, just on principle.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:36 pm GMT by Johny
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Anyone who claims they could lay that down is a complete donkey. No pro in the world would ever fold that hand, just on principle. |
Let's say your opponent is a very good player and so are you. You both have deep stacks and the hand plays out exactly as in Geno's case. Now you know that your opponent won't move-in with just a K or Q high flush and respects you enough not to make a move on such a scary board. Is your hand really good in this situation?
I'm not saying I'd ever make this laydown, because I wouldn't. Surely though, some people could?
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:06 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| Johny4444 wrote: | | xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Anyone who claims they could lay that down is a complete donkey. No pro in the world would ever fold that hand, just on principle. |
Let's say your opponent is a very good player and so are you. You both have deep stacks and the hand plays out exactly as in Geno's case. Now you know that your opponent won't move-in with just a K or Q high flush and respects you enough not to make a move on such a scary board. Is your hand really good in this situation?
I'm not saying I'd ever make this laydown, because I wouldn't. Surely though, some people could? |
I have a friend who is so tight & I have such a good read on, that it is remotely possible I can get away from this hand. But I am telling you, the moon and the stars would have to be in such alignment for that to ever happen....
In any online game or tourney under normal circumstances, I can't fold this.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:07 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
99 out of 100 times in that situation Johnny, you're facing either second nuts or a pure bluff. I don't think anyone's laying that down, because most of the time, it would be a huge mistake to lay it down.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:33 pm GMT by Johny
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | 99 out of 100 times in that situation Johnny, you're facing either second nuts or a pure bluff. I don't think anyone's laying that down, because most of the time, it would be a huge mistake to lay it down. |
I agree completely, as I said that is a laydown I'll probably never make. I was just saying that there could be a extremely rare situation where you make such a laydown.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:53 pm GMT by Icec0o1
I would for the reasons stated.
He bets 4, you reraise 10, and he goes all in? Nobody bluffs like that *online and nobody will be stupid enough to think his Q or K are best, especially on a 25nl table. Seriously, I fold.
Posted Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:01 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| Icec0o1 wrote: | I would for the reasons stated.
He bets 4, you reraise 10, and he goes all in? Nobody bluffs like that *online and nobody will be stupid enough to think his Q or K are best, especially on a 25nl table. Seriously, I fold. |
You can't be serious. At 25NL, the way this hand was played, a lot of crappy players would think that the K or Q is good here. You really going to fold, banking the fact that he must have EXACTLY a two card combination to beat you?
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:08 am GMT by snoogins47
Ice: Given the odds, you don't even have to be a favorite in the hand to make the call. You're getting better than 2:1, on the river, and there is precisely ONE hand, that requires a specific two-card hand, to beat you.
You have to win this pot like, 30% of the time, or better, to break even. 5d6d beats you. You beat every other hand. I don't think I have met, or played against, online or live, a player that would EVER make folding superior to calling. That player probably exists. But this is one of those situations where if you never fold, you're probably doing assloads better than if you ever try to "guess" when to fold, unless you've got shitloads of reasons to do so.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:15 am GMT by Icec0o1
As I see it, you're going to get reraised in that situation by either a short stack or the straight flush. He wasn't short stacked...
I've made 25nl my living...I know how these people play. They aren't agressive like that; if they have a high flush, they'd only call your raise. But you guys don't believe me so w/ever.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:02 am GMT by Geno
| Icec0o1 wrote: | | As I see it, you're going to get reraised in that situation by either a short stack or the straight flush. He wasn't short stacked... |
Perhaps, but people do the darndest things don't they?
| Icec0o1 wrote: | | I've made 25nl my living...I know how these people play. |
They are not one homogenous group, I'm afraid your comment is moot.
| Icec0o1 wrote: | | They aren't agressive like that; if they have a high flush, they'd only call your raise. But you guys don't believe me so w/ever. |
You are rather missing the point of the logic. Even if calling is wrong THIS time, if faced with this situation 100 times, I'd win a lot more than I lost because not everyone is going to push with only 65s despite what you might believe about 25NL players. I've been around the block at 25NL enough times to know that a K high flush means the world to a lot of players.........
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:04 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | nobody will be stupid enough to think his Q or K are best, especially on a 25nl table. Seriously, I fold. |
Yeah they would. I got paid off with the nut flush last night when a guy pushed over top of me on the river with his Q-high flush (the K was on the board). I'm not trying to start a pissing match here, but using "nobody" in regards to poker is the same as saying "never."
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:26 am GMT by UrAteUp
Geno...that second hand you posted was just pure luck on his part. You played it perfectly I feel.
Yes there are people who will call an all-in bet when they know they are beat. I once had a guy call my all-in when I had AKo and the board hit AAx. I pushed all in and he called with a pair of 2s. I guess he was hoping to get a 2 on the board and make a full house, but he knew I had the A for the trips.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:00 am GMT by 1988 TR
| Icec0o1 wrote: | As I see it, you're going to get reraised in that situation by either a short stack or the straight flush. He wasn't short stacked...
I've made 25nl my living...I know how these people play. They aren't agressive like that; if they have a high flush, they'd only call your raise. But you guys don't believe me so w/ever. |
If you can't make this call, you need to loosen up your standards. I posted a hand the other day where I guy called my last $13 bet with 6 high! If you think the only hand the opponnent could have here is the nuts, you need a bit more experience IMHO.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:39 am GMT by Muck
| Icec0o1 wrote: | | They aren't agressive like that; if they have a high flush, they'd only call your raise. But you guys don't believe me so w/ever. |
I believe that you believe that. Our experiences are just different so our views vary.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:32 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Icec0o1 wrote: | I would for the reasons stated.
He bets 4, you reraise 10, and he goes all in? Nobody bluffs like that *online and nobody will be stupid enough to think his Q or K are best, especially on a 25nl table. Seriously, I fold. |
This is horrible.
Because:
1.) The stacks aren't deep enough to justify even thinking about folding.
2.) 25NL is filled with horrible players.
3.) 25NL is filled with stupid moves.
3.) Alot of players would bluff here.
Seriously, this advice is fairly weak/tight.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:40 pm GMT by Skribbles
| tame_deuces wrote: |
Seriously, this advice is fairly weak/tight. |
Not fairly. EXTREMELY weak if you fold this.
So Ice.... hypothetical here.
You hold AA and raise 5xBB and get one caller.
Flop: A  K Q
You bet and get called.
Turn: A
You bet and he pushes.
Are you going to fold quads because he *could* have a royal???
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:43 pm GMT by BeerWench13
Don't hold back, Skribbs. Say what you think. 
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:56 pm GMT by Skribbles
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | Don't hold back, Skribbs. Say what you think. |
Always do.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:37 pm GMT by TxShadow
| Icec0o1 wrote: | | Nobody bluffs like that *online and nobody will be stupid enough to think his Q or K are best, especially on a 25nl table. Seriously, I fold. |
If you say you make your living at $25 NL, you should know that the above statement is false.
Posted Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:41 pm GMT by TxShadow
| Skribbles wrote: | | tame_deuces wrote: |
Seriously, this advice is fairly weak/tight. |
Not fairly. EXTREMELY weak if you fold this.
So Ice.... hypothetical here.
You hold AA and raise 5xBB and get one caller.
Flop: A K Q
You bet and get called.
Turn: A
You bet and he pushes.
Are you going to fold quads because he *could* have a royal??? |
Easy fold. I fold here every time with quads. I can dodge bullets, baby.
jk
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