The kind of donks I'm playing with |
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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:26 pm GMT by kainARGH
UTG raises to 5$ - tight conservative
fold
UTG+2 calls 5$ - loose , bad player , trying to give his money away
fold
fold
Me all in 42$ ( AK )
Now what im doing here is , earlyer i had to show down a hand where i raised pre flop - got re-raised - then i called - then i went all in on the flop with q8s. This was maybe 5-6 hands ago , i floped two pair and the dumb player called me and gave me some chips ( why i went all in , so i could get his chips as i knew he would call ).
Now , im putting the tight conservative player on AQ , maybe AJs possibly even AK. She was taking note of my play when i had q8 , she seemd a little weirded out that i called a prefflop re-raise with q8 , so im hopeing she gets suspicious and calls with a dominated hand.
Well i was wrong , she has QQ , but then free money comes in behind her proclaiming " I never fold " , and happily shows 62s. Hes not even drunk lol.
Anywho ,
f: k-10-8
t: k-10-8-7
r: k-10-8-7-9
he had like 20 or 25$ , so what should have been a 100+$ pot for me , turns out to be me breaking about even.
Who are these people ?
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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:31 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Interesting play risking +$40 on what is, at best, a coin flip. I understand why you did it, and the logic behind your play, I would just rather risk my stack on better odds.
As for the donk... what can you say? Just get another big hand and take him to the cleaners.
Posted Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:47 pm GMT by kainARGH
| Soup_dog wrote: | Interesting play risking +$40 on what is, at best, a coin flip. I understand why you did it, and the logic behind your play, I would just rather risk my stack on better odds.
As for the donk... what can you say? Just get another big hand and take him to the cleaners. |
Just shareing a story , makes me sad when the stupid people win big. Unfortunatly i hit some tough luck later ( my 9 high flush ran into a j high flush , top pair big kicker ran into two pair useing my top pair , so i was busted out and couldnt make him pay ).
As per the play , my read was off unfortunatly. Coin flip at worse though , but was hopeing she would make the call with AQ AJs.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:28 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | makes me sad when the stupid people win big. |
Get used to it. It happens often, especially online.
My hubby likes to play this way occasionally. He likes to sneak into big pots with awful hands. If he misses, he can fold and he's only risked whatever the raise was preflop. However, if the board is all junk, he can get paid pretty well as everyone will expect only good hands to have called the preflop raise.
For instance, one Saturday night at a local home game, everyone's drinking and having a good time. The chips are flying and the aggression is getting higher as the night and drinks progress.
$50NL Blinds $.25/.50
The hubby is in BB. UTG raises to $1.50, two players call behind then OTC reraises to $4. It folds to the hubby who is holding 9  2 . He knows this guy likes to steal, but even so probably has a pretty big hand like AK, AQ, JJ, TT or even A's or K's. He calls, original raiser calls and everyone else folds.
Flop:
9  9  2  
He checks, next player bets $5, OTC pushes for ~$45. The hubby immediately calls and other player folds. The cards are flipped and orginal raiser shows KK. The other guy says he folded AK and the button says he folded KQ.
The hubby not only doubled up on that hand, but he set that guy so far off on tilt that he bought in another 4 times before the night was done. That guy, who happens to be one of the hubby's best friends, still calls him "donkey" to this day because of that hand. The hubby walked out with over $300 that night because no one respected any hand he played after and he got paid on his monsters. Sometimes it's about table image as much as it is the cards.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:56 pm GMT by kainARGH
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | Get used to it. It happens often, especially online. |
Ordinarilly I am pretty much used to it , however its those runner runner - turn gives gutshot river makes the gutshot str8's i can't quite get used to 
p.s. The homegame is story is quite classic  I love playing like a donk at homegames with good friends & drinking.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:59 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Ordinarilly I am pretty much used to it , however its those runner runner - turn gives gutshot river makes the gutshot str8's i can't quite get used to |
I know. Those blow. Just think about it this way though. How many times are they going to hit that miracle? Odds state, not many. Now, don't you want them calling you when the odds are so strongly in your favor? I know I do.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:50 pm GMT by kainARGH
Your so inspiring
I need to work on my "thats poker" attitude. 8)
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:52 pm GMT by BeerWench13
The more poker you play the more bad beats you suffer. The more bad beats you suffer, the easier it is to take them. After a while, you won't flinch at them, you'll just make a note on that player and hope they sit long enough to repay you for their suckout.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:17 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | The more poker you play the more bad beats you suffer. The more bad beats you suffer, the easier it is to take them. After a while, you won't flinch at them, you'll just make a note on that player and hope they sit long enough to repay you for their suckout. |
Quoted for truth.
After time you will become one with the cards young pokerhopper...lol. You will come to know when you must lay down and when you must stick around. When a bad beat happens you till not tilt but you will accept it and move on....Words of wisdom from Cardfusious... 
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:20 pm GMT by Jauron
This thread makes me cry, and not for the reasons it is supposed to. Thats as nice as I can be.
Q8 calls a reraise flops two pairs and then calls the other guy dumb = you are awesome in everything you do.
AK has a bad read, misplays hand if read is good, 6 2 has correct pot odds to call down, you get lucky on the flop, unlucky on the river = everyone I play with is a donk.
If this is all you took away from both hands....
/sad panda
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:35 pm GMT by kainARGH
| Jauron wrote: | This thread makes me cry, and not for the reasons it is supposed to. Thats as nice as I can be.
Q8 calls a reraise flops two pairs and then calls the other guy dumb = you are awesome in everything you do.
AK has a bad read, misplays hand if read is good, 6 2 has correct pot odds to call down, you get lucky on the flop, unlucky on the river = everyone I play with is a donk.
If this is all you took away from both hands....
/sad panda |
I can't tell if this is a joke or not.
The q8 , it was a minimum re-raise back to me , from a player who is facinated with raiseing preflop with Ace anything. He was a dumb player , not for that specific scenario , but just in general. When i went all in with my two pair , he had ace high .... Sh* kicker. I don't call people dumb without good cause.
Pot odds with 62 suited ? Well , i guess they were suited
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:40 pm GMT by zinn0
Calling a reraise with Q8s? Bad. | kainARGH wrote: | | Well , i guess they were suited |
Posted Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:39 am GMT by kainARGH
| zinn0 wrote: | | Calling a reraise with Q8s? Bad. |
You had to be there , you had to know the player I supose. You see , those are important details when analizing my play , a play which wasnt the topic of this discussion and thus why such crucial details were left out.
*edit*
Im just gonna make a sad panda face as well , i would say a mixture of , :x  and 
Posted Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:29 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Ok, I'm going to share a little theory around AK that I have for cash games. I do not like playing big pots with AK. Most of the time it wins, it wins with a marginally strong hand: top pair, top kicker.
I do not like the huge re-raise pre-flop for a couple reasons:
1. You will not get called often enough with a weaker hand to justify risking $42 on a pot with only a little over $10.
2. When you do get called, you usually get called with only three types of hands: a) a pair, in which case you're a small dog; b) AA or KK, in which case you're a BIG dog; and c) a weaker ace, in which case you're about a 3-to-1 favorite. The problem is, situations a and b are a lot more frequent (not in terms of hand volume, but in terms of how often you'll be called... because he needs a HUGE hand to justify calling that big raise), and in both situations you are an underdog of some kind.
Don't play AK like it's often portrayed on TV, because in NL tournaments, you can make a lot of short-run calls that have a better chance of getting paid off because of the way the game is structures. I almost never like putting a lot of chips at risk in a cash game as any kind of underdog, simply because the constraints and pressure on your play are not there. If you feel that you're a better player than others at the table, why not find a situation to put in all your chips when you're a big favorite?
Just my $0.02
Posted Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:23 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | for cash games. I do not like playing big pots with AK. |
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I've been saying this since I started playing poker. People overrate big slick in cash games all of the time. This is a drawing hand. (J/k I couldn't resist ) But, seriously, this hand is not a great hand in a cash game. As diamond says, when you bet that large with that hand, if you're called, you're likely a big underdog. Why risk a large portion of your chips on a hand that will only be a slight favorite less than half of the time and won't pay anything the rest of the time?
Kain, I understand that you were playing the player and going off of your read. I have done the same with lesser hands. I called an all-in from an opponent (they only had about $10 to my stack of $200+) with 64s. Something told me I was ahead with this hand. I just knew that my 6 high was good. The funny thing, it was. I took down the hand (he had 23o) and listened to him make comments about my calling him with 6 high because they were suited, blah, blah, blah, blah as he bought back in.
There's nothing wrong with trusting you reads.
Posted Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:13 pm GMT by kainARGH
xDiamond_CutteRx , beerwench basically nailed it , in that i was playing a read , not the cards. I will almost never play AK the way as depicted in the story , i was just playing off the fact she raised a little over standard from early posistion , and had suspicions about me , so i thought i would atttempt to feed her suspicions by going all in.
though don't get me wrong , your analasis was a good read , and very dead on. 9 times out of 10 i would either re-raise to see where they're at , or if i feel i can outplay the player , ill smooth call and let them put more chips in with the worst of it. typically i HAVE to re-raise simply because too many people like to call raises with any 2 cards at the tables i play on.
I actualy heard an interesting saying about AK that i really liked , from a gentleman at my table once , " AK .... overplayed and underpayed " , i think it fits all too well.
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | Kain, I understand that you were playing the player and going off of your read. I have done the same with lesser hands. I called an all-in from an opponent (they only had about $10 to my stack of $200+) with 64s. Something told me I was ahead with this hand. I just knew that my 6 high was good. The funny thing, it was. |
Thanks for elaborateing what i was trying to do , play the player not the cards. And the 6 high , now thats impressive. Best I could ever do was call someone down with 10 high , i was proud.
p.s. This has kinda spiraled in the wrong direction , the thread was really just to poke fun at the guy who wasn't drunk , and happily proclaimed " i never fold! " as he called...mind you after a raise from early posistion + an all in + a call of the all in from OR ... all of his chips off with 62s. 
Posted Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:19 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | now thats impressive. |
I basically suck in poker, but my reads are impeccable.
| Quote: | | the thread was really just to poke fun at the guy who wasn't drunk , and happily proclaimed " i never fold! " as he called...mind you after a raise from early posistion + an all in + a call of the all in from OR ... all of his chips off with 62s. |
We already dismissed him. You'll get no argument regarding his play or your crowning him "king donk." 
Posted Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:26 pm GMT by kainARGH
now this thread is just going nowhere , but i thought id chime in with; I have a really good reading ability too ..... but half the time it only goes one way -> in that i can almost always tell when im beat. Look at a guy - damn he floped two pair , or im thinking of bluffing and - damn , hes got top pair ... ect ect. But i tend to lack the ability to look at someones bet ( pre flop im bad , but on the flop->river im a little better ) and properly deduce if its a BS raise or if its a legitimate sign of str.
Need to work more on takeing pots away from people IE calling a preflop raise , seeing they miss , and eitehr betting them out or comeing over the top of there flop raise.
Thats all just cash games though , in tournaments , i get MUCH moer aggressive  I miss tournies , havent played one in a good while. To focused on trying to sustain gradual profit from cash games.
Posted Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:40 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Also remember Kain, just because you have a good read doesn't mean you always want to take what may be a small edge in a pot. Like I said, in that situation, I don't think the risk/reward ratio is very good. It's important to go with your reads, but don't let them force you into situations. I understand where you're coming from, though, and playing the other guy's cards are at least as important as playing yours.
Posted Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:58 pm GMT by truplaya_177
Try play money
Posted Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:00 pm GMT by Johny
| truplaya_177 wrote: | | Try play money |
Nice contribution, which high limit table may I find you at tonight?
Posted Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:04 pm GMT by zinn0
.02/.04 limit.
Posted Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:28 pm GMT by TxShadow
| zinn0 wrote: | | .02/.04 limit. |
Yeesh. What does my bankroll need to be to play at those tables?
Posted Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:48 pm GMT by zinn0
A lot. Emphasis on lot.
Posted Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:55 pm GMT by nknowles
they are internet poker players just get use to it, eventually playing like that they will lose in the longrun. But i wouldnt have played that recklessly with AK like that lol, ur still gambling cause they still got 2 live cards on u. But i donno i might have just flat called there.
Posted Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:03 pm GMT by kainARGH
yea , i might make that play with AK at a cash game , oh say 1% of the time i do get AK
Im actualy , for the first time , haveing fun playing limit poker , even though its .05 .10 , just because im buying in 5 $ ..... and ive never played a limit game and bought in for more then 30x the small bet.
Posted Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:05 pm GMT by zinn0
| kainARGH wrote: | | Im actualy , for the first time , haveing fun playing limit poker. |
Me too!
Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:17 am GMT by Jauron
| kainARGH wrote: | | Jauron wrote: | This thread makes me cry, and not for the reasons it is supposed to. Thats as nice as I can be.
Q8 calls a reraise flops two pairs and then calls the other guy dumb = you are awesome in everything you do.
AK has a bad read, misplays hand if read is good, 6 2 has correct pot odds to call down, you get lucky on the flop, unlucky on the river = everyone I play with is a donk.
If this is all you took away from both hands....
/sad panda |
I can't tell if this is a joke or not.
The q8 , it was a minimum re-raise back to me , from a player who is facinated with raiseing preflop with Ace anything. He was a dumb player , not for that specific scenario , but just in general. When i went all in with my two pair , he had ace high .... Sh* kicker. I don't call people dumb without good cause.
Pot odds with 62 suited ? Well , i guess they were suited |
Not a joke.
Ok, lets say his read was the same as your read, just for fun. Since you did not include suites I decided to make AK and AQ unsuited and no spades.
He's getting 3-1 on his money and is short stacked, he's actually going to win this 1/3 of the time. Even if you share the suites he's just under 3-1.
He's only in really bad shape if at least one of you has a big pair, if neither of you do, but instead have paint, he's really not in that bad a shape, but clearly behind. If no one shares his suites and you share an ace, he's only ~7% dog to you, the favorite.
I don't know the stakes you were playing for, but to dismiss the play as completly wrong ignores the fact he'd have to make a better read than you did. Did he consider the odds? Who knows, I'm just telling you he was correct to call if he wanted if your own read was good.
To your own read however and your play. A tight conservative player is not going to risk that many chips with AJ unless the game is very short handed, AQ maybe, if you were playing very loose. You gave one example of a loose type play, but you yourself said you moved in with 2 pair, and that is going to register more with a player than the fact you raised preflop with a suspect hand. Last time he moved it in, he had it, he raises with junk but moves in with a hand. It is instead more likely that a tight conservative player will only call with a hand that has you beat.
So your read was off (happens) but your play was suspect at best given the information you laid out for us. If you wanted to take the pot down, it was fine, but you said you wanted and expected a call. Thats curious to me, given your description of the player.
Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:22 am GMT by kainARGH
Well , a couple things.
1. This thread was suposed to have nothing to do with my play , i was just giving a little backround on why i did what i did , which was why i didnt give alot of detail. your criticism was a little harsh haveing imo not enough details to make such rationlizations.
2. hes getting about 2.1 to 1 odds , theres myself 1 other player and him , so if he is winning 1/3 of the time , hes makeing a hoooooribble call. Even if he had as you wrote 3 to 1 odds , he would be breaking even at best , and risking his whole stack to do so.
3. Her folding was also fine with me , as with makeing the raise , at the absolute worst ( in my mind ) i was about a coin flip , i had hoped she would call ( like i said earlyer , i felt she was suspicious of me , and i was atempting to feed her suspicions ) with a dominated hand , and even if she folded i was A ok with that as well .... perhaps she would laydown AK even if she had it.
| Quote: | | I'm just telling you he was correct to call if he wanted if your own read was good. |
I don't have my little odds calculator with me , but i really have to completly disagree here. 2 players all in before you folds all around to you , if either player doesnt have a pp and are holding one of each others outs ( AJ VS ak ) your saying its profitable to call with any 2 cards everytime? Am i understanding this correctly?
One final note , I hoped for a call from a dominated hand at best , didnt expect a call. Your putting alot of words in my mouth.
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