Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:43 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Another most enjoyable episode, in which Daniel managed not to donk off any more big pots. 
I must say, there is nothing better than watching old Phil flush money down the toilet then whine about his bad luck. I have no idea what he was thinking about with that QQ hand, or with his weak ace against Daniel.
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Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:52 am GMT by Dat_Dude
The QQ hand was the worst. Every card on the board was an under an he waited to bet it until there was 4 to the straight on the board. Any slight bit of aggression preflop or postflop and he was taking down a decent sized pot.
The weak Ace hand I can SORT OF understand. The way Daniel played it on the flop was as if he did have a PP of some kind since he bet dark after he reraised Phil preflop. I just don't think Phil wanted to let Daniel push at him if that were the case. Phil's problem is that he announced what he had, which allowed Daniel to make decent sized bets, yet they were ones that Phil could call.
I had read about this episode on Negraneu's blog. He said that almost every pot Phil raised, either him or Esfandiari would reraise him no matter what they were holding.
Hellmuth....poor guy.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:49 am GMT by MJJ
Yeah, the weak ace hand would have cost me money to. Daniel bet the flop in the dark, it would be hard to believe he hit top 2 pairs on it...
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:31 am GMT by TxShadow
That was an entertaining episode. Sheiky does annoy the crap out of me, but I was somewhat glad to see him win back some money. I guess it's because he was actually a little humble about it. That and people pick on him a lot. Also nice to see things turning around a little for Daniel.
I do have one question though:
At one point, Phil bought "insurance" from Barry. I know they kind of explained it, but I still don't get how this works. Anyone able to explain it a little better? Or just explain why you would want to buy or give someone insurance?
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:39 am GMT by MJJ
As I understand it-
Phil was a 91% favorite to win the hand but he elected to take 80% of the bet instead of playing the hand out. They still ran the turn and river but the results didn't matter
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:43 am GMT by Soup_dog
What the heck is the deal with running the turn and river twice? I think it was in last weeks episode, but I have never seen that done before. Some kind of insurance move for Daniel I think.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:52 pm GMT by TxShadow
| Soup_dog wrote: | | What the heck is the deal with running the turn and river twice? I think it was in last weeks episode, but I have never seen that done before. Some kind of insurance move for Daniel I think. |
The turn and river twice thing is just something you can do in cash games. Basically, say you've got 2 pair on the flop and your opponent has a 4 flush. You both go all-in and see each others cards. Either of you could elect to "run it twice" getting two 4th and 5th streets. Basically if your 2-pair holds up twice, you win the whole pot. If your opponent makes his flush twice, he wins it. If you each win one, you split it. I guess it is sort of like insurance.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:53 pm GMT by TxShadow
| MJJ wrote: | As I understand it-
Phil was a 91% favorite to win the hand but he elected to take 80% of the bet instead of playing the hand out. They still ran the turn and river but the results didn't matter |
I get it, so the turn and river don't matter. Phil was basically buying insurance for 10% "juice" as he put it.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:56 pm GMT by Dave B
Just to correct a slight wording error, either can ask to run it twice, but both have to agree. One person cant ask for it and make it happen. If the other party doesnt agree, it is standard play.
I know that is what you meant though.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:21 pm GMT by TxShadow
| Dave B wrote: | Just to correct a slight wording error, either can ask to run it twice, but both have to agree. One person cant ask for it and make it happen. If the other party doesnt agree, it is standard play.
I know that is what you meant though. |
Oops, left that part out. Thanks for the correction.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:01 pm GMT by Soup_dog
| Dave B wrote: | Just to correct a slight wording error, either can ask to run it twice, but both have to agree. One person cant ask for it and make it happen. If the other party doesnt agree, it is standard play.
I know that is what you meant though. |
If you had the odds, why the heck would you ever agree to this?
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:59 pm GMT by TxShadow
| Soup_dog wrote: | | Dave B wrote: | Just to correct a slight wording error, either can ask to run it twice, but both have to agree. One person cant ask for it and make it happen. If the other party doesnt agree, it is standard play.
I know that is what you meant though. |
If you had the odds, why the heck would you ever agree to this? |
It's just insurance against getting sucked out. Think about it this way. In a given situation, you will win 90% of the time. For ten $100 pots, you'll end up with $900 and your opponent $100. (you won 9, your opponent won 1)
If instead, you just decided to split every pot with with that opponent, giving him 10% each time, you would get $90 from each pot and your opponent $10. This would end up being the exact same as the previous scenario: $90x10=$900, $10x10=$100
So, it's essentially the same, you're still coming out ahead. By giving him 20% of the pot instead of 10% on a given hand, you're just paying him a little extra (the "juice") not to suck out on you.
Plus, you know Phil H. It's probably well worth 10% of a pot to him not to have to explode when someone does suck out on him. 
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:03 pm GMT by TxShadow
Man I must be bored at work. I put way too much thought into explaining that. 
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:06 pm GMT by Dave B
Why do this? Good poker players want to have an edge, it is a game of percentages. If it was 70/30, they wouldnt run it twice for even odds.
But, if it was 52/48 do you want to flip a coin for $200K? If so, play blackjack. By running it twice, you have a 75% chance of not losing. Sure, you are only 25% to win, but most would prefer that. This is especially true if you are friends.
Finally, in some cases it is good for the game. Say you have 5 playing NL for big dollars at Bellagio. Someone busts and packs it in, now you have a 4 handed game.
Posted Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:17 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Say you have 5 playing NL for big dollars at Bellagio. Someone busts and packs it in, now you have a 4 handed game. |
I never thought of this point. When our cash games get later into the night, it usually ends up pretty short-handed (5-6max) and as soon as someone goes bust it ends the game because no one really wants to play that short-handed. Thanks, Dave. I may have to mention it at the next game.
Posted Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:38 pm GMT by TxShadow
It just occured to me that I took 30 minutes to explain why you would want to get insurance from someone when in fact, soup was asking why you would want to run it twice. I hate me.
Posted Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:41 pm GMT by Johny
Plain and simple running it more than once reduces variation, but not expected value.
Posted Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:54 pm GMT by snoogins47
In the QQ hand, I think the coolest, and most noteworthy play, was Jen flat-calling the river. I'm surprised nobody mentioned it.
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