I was nauseous after this Omaha8 hand |
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Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:33 am GMT by BeerWench13
Live PL Omaha8 cash game Blinds $1/2
Hero is OTC and it's my first hand. I just bought in for $100.
Limpers around until two players before me and he raises to $14. One player behind calls and I look at those who limped and see most of them couting out the $14 to call. I'm holding K  K  Q 4 . Not a great hand since I have no outs for a low, but the guy who raised isn't really smart (he has some sort of "points" cheat sheet for Omaha), so I figure I'll see a flop. I call, 4 players behind me call, then the last player pushes to $62. Original raiser calls and it folds to me. Now, I cannot call this bet. I'm not going to put 2/3 of my stack in on the 1st hand with just K's in the hole so I fold. 3 players call behind me.
Pot $310.
Flop K  9 6 UTG bets $50 and one player calls.
Turn 9 . UTG pushes for his last $100 and the other player folds.
The cards are revealed and original pusher has A 2 Q 7 and caller has A 2 9 6. Since there's no possible low, he takes the pot with 9's full. Now, had I been in that hand, I'd have taken a huge pot. I don't think I made a bad play in folding preflop, but it made me sick to see that hand play out after the flop. :x
There's no question in this post, just a story about "the one that got away."
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Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:52 am GMT by Soup_dog
Havent heard of that one. Am I missing something?
"On the couch"?
"Out of the Closet"?
"On the commode"?
Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:55 am GMT by BeerWench13
On the cut. One seat before the button.
For the record, I'm still in the closet. 
Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:00 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Ahh. Thanks. Thats called the cutoff position too isn't it?
Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:05 pm GMT by BeerWench13
Yes it is.
Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:05 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| BeerWench13 wrote: |
For the record, I'm still in the closet. |
Well come out and give us some good stories... 
Posted Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:16 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Honestly, in PL games, I would not call a raise even initially with that hand Wenchie... You have only one good pair, two not-nut flush possibilities, one straight, and no low. I hate the idea of having to play a big pot (for probably half the pot) with that hand.
Other than that, you had to fold that hand, so don't beat yourself up too much.
Posted Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:48 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I would not call a raise even initially with that hand Wenchie... |
From any other player at the table, I'd have folded to a raise, but the guy who raised initially is a complete moron. He's nice as he can be, but an imbecile about how to play cards. I asked him what he had and he claims he had A 2 J J with three of them suited. After he told me, it took a great deal not to show the grimace that instantly sprung to my face. :x
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:25 pm GMT by BeerWench13
Somehow I got roped into another Omaha8 cash game tonight with many of the same players from this original post (not the guy with the "points system"). I'm not adept at this game at all. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:32 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Play only good hands but fold if someone has a better hand.
You will be a sure winner if you follow that golden rule.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:37 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | Play only good hands but fold if someone has a better hand.
You will be a sure winner if you follow that golden rule. |
That's pretty deep. Kind of like "Go that way really fast. If something gets in your way, turn."
My thoery is to fold most if not all hands unless I have an excellent starting hand or I can check in from BB.
Before anyone says it, there will be two rounds of NLHE then 1 round of PLO8, so it's not a complete waste of time or cash to play with this method.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:43 pm GMT by Soup_dog
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | Quote: | Play only good hands but fold if someone has a better hand.
You will be a sure winner if you follow that golden rule. |
That's pretty deep. Kind of like "Go that way really fast. If something gets in your way, turn." |
Always glad to help!
Posted Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:07 am GMT by BeerWench13
So I skipped the cash game last week. Every instinct in my body said "DON'T PLAY POKER TODAY!" I listen to that voice.....sometimes. However, I played my first PL O8 tournament on Sunday. It was awful. There were guys going in with nothing and somehow winning pots with Ak high and A6 low. It was a gamble-fest. I never really got a good starting hand, so I played my lows, split 2 pots in the 2nd and 3rd levels and then the blinds ate me alive. I was 2nd to act and saw A A 2 J , pushed and prayed. I got called by Q T 5 2. There was no low and he caught 2 pair (T's & 2's) to take me out.
After I played a rotational cash game and won 1 pot and split another in O8. The more I play this game, the more I realize that, not only am I not very good at it, I just don't enjoy it like I do NLHE and 7-S.
Posted Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:37 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Try not to get too discouraged Wenchie... I'm skeptical that ANYONE can be a long-term winning PLO8 player--that game simply has too much variance, which is why it is traditionally played Limit in casinos and tournaments. PLO High is a good game, but any high-low split game that is played for Pot- or No-Limit is always likely to increase the gamble factor and give preference to high hands (I have watched PLO8 tournaments online and it is simply atrocious... you almost always have to gamble with virtually your entire stack on the line).
My advice if you continue playing is to essentially do what you have been doing. Play good high hands that have low potential. High pairs and connectors have pretty good value in this game as they have a good chance to win hands and make powerful draws--low draws alone are not especially good because you are almost always playing for half the pot at most. The game can only be won with proper hand selection, and even then you must always take a lot of close gambles when any big pot comes up. A2s is also a very powerful combination because it is the most frequent combination in hands that scoop.
Posted Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:13 am GMT by BeerWench13
Thanks, Diamond. I was hoping you would see this thread and give me some good advice. I know you play Omaha often.
| Quote: | | you almost always have to gamble with virtually your entire stack on the line |
This is the part of the game that I'm having difficulty with the most. Firstly, the group of guys that I play with are gamblers more than players anyway. They love throwing money at the pot and calling with any draw in hopes of "breaking one off", as they put it, in any opponent. So, having the nuts on the turn doesn't win 85% of the time because one or the other of them will catch up on the river usually.
Secondly, I know the game, but not to the extent of familiarity that I have with NLHE. It's tough for me to switch gears from one game to the other (we rotate one round of O8 then 2 rounds NLHE).
Thirdly, I've been dealing with cards colder than a corpse. That makes this game especially tough. I have another game on Thursday, so I will take your advice with me when I go. Wish me luck.
Posted Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:27 pm GMT by Xamzax
What you have to understand about Om/8 is that when you factor in pot limit, the game becomes a huge crap shoot.
I've never and I NEVER will play in a pot limit om/8 game. The key to winning at poker is simply to play with worse opponents. But in this game, you are going to be making correct decisions and playing well and still lose. The fact that it's pot limit makes the money you lose when that happens very destructive.
The volatility of pot limit in a game engineered to encourage loose play is astounding. Just think, here is a game where you can go broke in one hand. Even the magnificent A2A3 double suited will take part of the money less than half the time -- and part of a winning strategy in OM/8 is to be able to muck on the flop.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is this - I cannot even fathom what my bankroll would turn into day to day playing this game on a regular basis. The fluctations would cause me to have an ulcer pretty darn fast.
Besides, I believe that I'd make more money on a consistant basis playing om/8 limit over ANY game of poker.
Posted Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:59 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Xamzax wrote: | | I cannot even fathom what my bankroll would turn into day to day playing this game on a regular basis. The fluctations would cause me to have an ulcer pretty darn fast |
I have another rotational game tonight. Something tells me I should take a few Alka-Seltzer with me. I would love to play FL, but I can't get these guys to go for it. There's really only one really good O8 player in the group. The rest are gamblers who love the big pots and hope they can suck out on you. I usually go out for a smoke when the omaha round starts so I can miss a hand or two. I'd prefer not to play it at all (well, PL anyway), but it's the only game in town with decent stakes at the moment so I can't get my live hold'em fix any other way.
Posted Fri May 12, 2006 12:28 pm GMT by BeerWench13
I played O8 again last night. I'm playing mostly the same group of guys, but the big gambler who is usually throwing $$ all over the place and gets everyone else to loosen up considerably is not present. I got a few hands that were questionable starting hands and a few where I thought I had great odds, but I'm not positive. Let me know what you think (I'll be brief, so if you need more info, let me know).
First, the starting hands:
I'm on the button and everyone limps to me. I have A K 7  2 Would it be proper to raise or just to limp? I have a decent high hand and outs for the nut low. I wasn't sure what to do here.
Another hand, I'm on the button again, and a LAG raises it from $2 to $8 from MP. I have A Q J 9 . Fold or see a flop?
Calculating my odds:
All limp but 2 and I'm BB and check it in.
I have A 3 3 4 . Firstly, should I have raised this preflop? Flop is A 2 T . Now, obviously I have no outs for my flush, but I do have a wheel and nut low draw and, though I'm really not that lucky, the backdoor straight flush draw. LAG in MP bets pot ($16). Both players before me fold. Should I see the turn?
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Apparently, this rotation seems to have fallen into being the regular routine. I need to get better at this game or smoke a lot of cigarettes to miss the O8 rounds.
Posted Fri May 12, 2006 4:30 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Hand 1: Your hand is good enough to raise, but I would just limp with it. The reason? Pot control. You're either going to hit that flop beautifully, miss completely, or end up with a big draw. How much do you want to pay to see that draw if a few players want to go to war on the flop? Although raising pre-flop is probably +EV somewhat in the long run, I doubt any of us really have the BR to go all-in every time we get A2 with a suited Ace. If the game is loose, and you hit your hand, you should be able to get most of your money in after the flop anyway, when you'll be sure you have the best hand. Why risk it blind when you could not have to really "risk" at all?
Hand 2: Lay it down. I'm not calling raises without a good chance to scoop, and you have no low and no pair.
Hand 3: I definitely do not raise out of the BB with your hand. On the flop, the move I would prefer to make is check-raising, because it gives you the optimal chance to scoop. If this guy is as LAG as you say, then we might even have the best hand right now. Even if we don't, we have a LOT of outs to improve our hand. I'd bet that any A, 3, or 5 will give us the best high, and any card 5-8 will give us the nut low. I'd pop him for the size of the pot right here and hope for the best on the turn, but I'm sure as hell not laying this down against a guy who seems so loose.
In any case, on hand 3, we likely have 2 aces, 2 threes, 4 fives, 4 sixes, 4 sevens, and 4 eights that will all give us at LEAST half of the pot, and any diamond on the turn gives us a re-draw to a flush as well. With 20 outs to some kind of hand, I'm going to raise this baby for value.
Posted Mon May 15, 2006 7:58 am GMT by BeerWench13
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Hand 1: Your hand is good enough to raise, but I would just limp with it. |
Okay, that's what I did. A guy beside me told me I should've raised preflop with that hand. I had the same thought you did. The pot is big enough at this point to see if I hit the flop. If I whiff it, then I've only lost $2.
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Hand 2: Lay it down. I'm not calling raises without a good chance to scoop, and you have no low and no pair. |
Also what I did. I know I'm not supposed to be results-oriented, but I would've flopped broadway and caught a royal on the turn with two players paying me the whole way. I still think the fold was the best move though.
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Hand 3: I definitely do not raise out of the BB with your hand. On the flop, the move I would prefer to make is check-raising, because it gives you the optimal chance to scoop. If this guy is as LAG as you say, then we might even have the best hand right now. Even if we don't, we have a LOT of outs to improve our hand. I'd bet that any A, 3, or 5 will give us the best high, and any card 5-8 will give us the nut low. I'd pop him for the size of the pot right here and hope for the best on the turn, but I'm sure as hell not laying this down against a guy who seems so loose. |
Well, I didn't check/raise, I fired out a pot-sized bet on the flop. He called, and the turn and river didn't help for a high hand, but I caught the nut low. The only problem was I actually lost money on the hand because he had 34 also and caught trips. So I ended up splitting half the pot. I didn't think the odds were very good for him to have a 3 and a 4 also, but he did. Just bad luck there, I think.
Thanks for the help.
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