Did I make the right call? |
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Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:28 pm GMT by Serge85
I had Ace King in a $10 buy-in game
I raise it $.50 before the flop, in addition to the $.20 blinds. Everyone folds except the guy who's 2nd chip leader.
Flop comes 2 9 K (Suits don't matter)
I decide to slow play it, so I bet $.10 since I know he's usually pretty aggressive and likes to bluff at pots.
He raises me to $1.10, and I call.
Turn comes a 2.
I continue the slow play, figuring I have him trapped and check. He bets $.50, probably figuring I was weak.
River comes a 10.
Of course it's time to fire my guns, so I bet $3 at what is a $4.60 pot. He reraises me ALL-IN. Suddenly the measly $4.60 pot becomes a monstrous $21 pot.
I sat in contemplation for a looooong looooooong time. Imagining every possible hand he could have. Could he have 10 2? A full house? Three twos? Pocket 10s? All of these possibilities crossed my mind, but I had to throw out the 10-2 because there's no way he would have called a raise preflop with that. He was aggressive, but not stupid. Pocket 10s was my biggest fear.
I sat in contemplation even longer. People are getting impatient, and he's telling me to call. If I call, I'm left with about $3 to play with.
After a few more minutes, I call $8.95.
He flips over K 5.
Pretty much led to me taking everybody else's money since I just had a massive chip stack after that and had no trouble bullying people around. +$45 on the night, not bad.
In hindsight, I had no reason to believe that he had pocket ANYTHINGS, but it's pretty damn possible that he had pocket 10s or 9s or even Aces and that would've screwed me over pretty badly. Did I make the right call?
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Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:47 pm GMT by TxShadow
Your problem is that you slowplayed your pair. By the time the river came down and you bet out, he raised all-in (probably thinking his kings were good).
Though you made the right call this time, you'll find that slowplaying vulnerable hands like pairs is going to put you into situations like this a lot.
You'll either give people way too many cheap cards and they'll draw out on you. Even if they don't draw out on you, when you get raised or put all in after the river card falls, you'll be left wondering what they could possibly have and have to make a tough decision.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:54 pm GMT by BeerWench13
I agree with Tx. The idea is to put your opponent to tough decisions, not have to make them yourself. Personally, I'd have been betting him the whole way or at least check/raised the flop and/or turn. One does not slowplay TPTK. You're better off slowplaying a flopped nut flush. There are fewer hands with which your opponent can catch. Slowplaying is always hazardous too unless you're lucky enough to flop quads or a royal.
Yes, you made the right call at the end. One question, what hand did you put him on from the start?
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:21 pm GMT by Serge85
Hmm, yeah, good point. I had him on something along the lines of a face card with a low kicker since he likes to see flops. Didn't think it was a king, though. I see your point on the slow play, and I guess just showing one hand is sort of out of context. I hadn't slow played anything the whole night, and I knew he was aggressive so I was just planning on letting him bet. In hindsight, yeah he would've called if I was the one doing the betting, but I had a feeling he was weak and thought he would have folded to a bet.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:25 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| Serge85 wrote: | | Hmm, yeah, good point. I had him on something along the lines of a face card with a low kicker since he likes to see flops. Didn't think it was a king, though. I see your point on the slow play, and I guess just showing one hand is sort of out of context. I hadn't slow played anything the whole night, and I knew he was aggressive so I was just planning on letting him bet. In hindsight, yeah he would've called if I was the one doing the betting, but I had a feeling he was weak and thought he would have folded to a bet. |
Even if you thought him weak your still giving him outs. Suppose he was playing a mid size pp and hit his set. You would be drawing dead and would have given away a great hand. When you know you have a hand bet it and play it aggressively. You don't want to give another player too many chances to out draw you.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:32 pm GMT by Johny
How about betting around the size of the pot on the flop, then check-calling the turn? Then leading with a strong bet on the river.
This makes it look like a steal, and playing TPTK slowly on that board isn't horrible.
If villain wants to bully me in this particular situation, I'm ok with letting him. Most of the time he's too weak too face any real strenght.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:33 pm GMT by Serge85
The problem I come across with that, though, is that people will fold and I'll be left with a $1 pot. Does that come down to table image? I find it hard to bluff (not semi-bluff) because it seems any time I do, somebody has something and I'm falling right into it. For example, I held pocket King Queen suited and raised preflop to two callers. The flop was something like 3 5 6. I figured there was no way anybody was holding real low cards, and even if they were holding a pair they'd think I was stronger. So I bluffed at it, and bluffed again on a trash card on the turn. Turned out someone called my preflop raise (which was a good amount) and was holding a 2 4. That sort of thing makes me not want to bluff, and in turn makes my table image appear like I'm a "tight" player who only bets when I have a hand.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:55 pm GMT by Mike_M4tusow
| Serge85 wrote: | | The problem I come across with that, though, is that people will fold and I'll be left with a $1 pot. Does that come down to table image? I find it hard to bluff (not semi-bluff) because it seems any time I do, somebody has something and I'm falling right into it. For example, I held pocket King Queen suited and raised preflop to two callers. The flop was something like 3 5 6. I figured there was no way anybody was holding real low cards, and even if they were holding a pair they'd think I was stronger. So I bluffed at it, and bluffed again on a trash card on the turn. Turned out someone called my preflop raise (which was a good amount) and was holding a 2 4. That sort of thing makes me not want to bluff, and in turn makes my table image appear like I'm a "tight" player who only bets when I have a hand. |
I think you have the right ideas but you won't find traditional poker played at those limits.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:01 pm GMT by Serge85
Yeah, you have a point. Since that's pretty much the only limit I play, what should I change up to deal with the "stupid" guys who call preflop raises with 2 4?
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:22 pm GMT by weirdofreek
| Quote: | | The problem I come across with that, though, is that people will fold and I'll be left with a $1 pot |
I Learned a long time ago that it is better to win a small pot than lose a big one. Unless you flop a monster like a straight or set than bet.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:23 pm GMT by Serge85
The thing is, I usually end up losing all the small pots and more that I've won on one big hand that's usually a bad beat.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:40 pm GMT by KingOfSpades
A lot of people think two face cards (neither an ace) are golden cards and play them agressively. But the odds of someone holding an ace is fairly high and unless you flop a monster hand your an underdog. I think you played that alright but like the others said slow playing lets your opponent see too many cheap cards. I've lost too many pots to slow playing and letting my opponent catch a straight or something to beat me.
Posted Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:25 pm GMT by kainARGH
| Quote: | | what hand did you put him on from the start? |
This is the all important question to answer yourself truthfully , in order to determine if you made a correct call.
The way i read the action , your opponent could have easily had k9 or k10 , and as others said slowplaying gives others a chance to catch up. Top pair is still vulnerable .... not by ALOT , but if your giving cheap cards , you can't complain someone caught on you.
In the end , its all going to be dependant on your reads. Just because your opponent is all in on the river , doesnt mean the river helped him ..... unless hes that type of player.
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