when does going all in preflop become a must |
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Posted Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:48 pm GMT by mrcfkane
i find preflop to be the hardest call...it's becoming frustrating lately b/c ive been losing a lot of high pair and ak hands to crap (or marginally better hands)
recent tourney outings include
i had JJ raise covered me so i call.....guy gets a full house with 6-4...wtf
trying to steal blinds, go all in with KJ suited....last guy calls with J10 off
naturally hits the second pair
any comments as to the all in preflop play
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Posted Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:54 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
Perhaps this will assist you with some of your concern. It's a great system to follow, and quite simple too.
http://www.pokerlistings.com/tournament-nolimit-holdem-harringtons-zone-system-5475
As for other situations, other info is needed such as stacks, the table type, your table image and others.
Posted Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:14 am GMT by Johny
I can tell you that if you have 10bb or less, then open-phusing pre-flop is usually better. Other than that the info for the hands in question ae needed.
I suggest that you post any hand that you were unsure of to get feedback.
Posted Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:18 pm GMT by mrcfkane
just happemd again about 10th play of the tourney
blinds are 30/60 i am 2nd to bet....i have AQ off and raise to 220, everyone folds but small blind who goes all in (we both have about 3000). i make the easy read and call his JQ, i cleary have him dominated but he winds up with the 2 pair. this skill-less shit doubles up and i am 5000+th place
LUCK > SKILL
shit makes me want to break things
Posted Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:06 am GMT by Tadzio
How was it an easy read that early in the tournament? He definitely sucked out, and that's lame, but he was banking on you folding and that was smart. I'd have difficulty calling this if I had AKo... but maybe I play too weak early in tournaments. His moving all-in does several things:
1) It removes the pressure of position. If you call, he doesn't have to worry about being first to act anymore.
2) For him to be in trouble, you have to call him and risk all your chips on the 10th hand of the tourney.
3) In the case that you call him, you need to have him beat.
4) And then you have to avoid a suck out.
If I'm reading what you're writing correctly, he only had to make the BB and you fold in order to steal. In a sense, he was unlucky to be dominated in that spot. Still, you made the call and found yourself in excellent position to win... and then the poker gods spat in your face. And that hurts.
This sorta thing is a big part of poker; it's the part that makes it exciting and keeps fish losing money to better players. 7/10 times you win that hand, so just keep on truckin', man. You'll get yours.
Posted Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:33 am GMT by Soup_dog
| Tadzio wrote: | How was it an easy read that early in the tournament? He definitely sucked out, and that's lame, but he was banking on you folding and that was smart. I'd have difficulty calling this if I had AKo... but maybe I play too weak early in tournaments. His moving all-in does several things:
1) It removes the pressure of position. If you call, he doesn't have to worry about being first to act anymore.
2) For him to be in trouble, you have to call him and risk all your chips on the 10th hand of the tourney.
3) In the case that you call him, you need to have him beat.
4) And then you have to avoid a suck out.
If I'm reading what you're writing correctly, he only had to make the BB and you fold in order to steal. In a sense, he was unlucky to be dominated in that spot. Still, you made the call and found yourself in excellent position to win... and then the poker gods spat in your face. And that hurts.
This sorta thing is a big part of poker; it's the part that makes it exciting and keeps fish losing money to better players. 7/10 times you win that hand, so just keep on truckin', man. You'll get yours. |
Word.
Posted Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:52 pm GMT by mrcfkane
| Tadzio wrote: | How was it an easy read that early in the tournament? He definitely sucked out, and that's lame, but he was banking on you folding and that was smart. I'd have difficulty calling this if I had AKo... but maybe I play too weak early in tournaments. His moving all-in does several things:
1) It removes the pressure of position. If you call, he doesn't have to worry about being first to act anymore.
2) For him to be in trouble, you have to call him and risk all your chips on the 10th hand of the tourney.
3) In the case that you call him, you need to have him beat.
4) And then you have to avoid a suck out.
If I'm reading what you're writing correctly, he only had to make the BB and you fold in order to steal. In a sense, he was unlucky to be dominated in that spot. Still, you made the call and found yourself in excellent position to win... and then the poker gods spat in your face. And that hurts.
This sorta thing is a big part of poker; it's the part that makes it exciting and keeps fish losing money to better players. 7/10 times you win that hand, so just keep on truckin', man. You'll get yours. |
i seem to find all reads i make correctly to be easy reads 
his play was overly aggressive, he wanted to play every hand....he did see me fold after ive made a raise and other limps earlier. it just felt like a call i had to make.
thanks though......poker can be a frustrating game and i just wanted to vent.
Posted Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:55 pm GMT by kainARGH
| Quote: | | I'd have difficulty calling this if I had AKo... but maybe I play too weak early in tournaments. |
I look alot tword probabilities anymore. In other words , even with AKo Id give myself 25% chance to dominate the other guy , 50% to be up VS 2 random cards , and 25% to be up VS a PP. With that idea in mind , Im not risking my tournament this early on.
Heres a scary thought about tournaments always takeing luck......
Even if you KNOW you have your oponent dominated ...... and you win 75% of the time , a very strong margin , he did put you ALL IN. What this means , will you make this call every time for all your chips ? Its tough , because if you do ( make the call for all your chips ) 4 times in a tournament , you are very likly to bust out of the tournament even though you did nothing wrong. Thats why early in tournaments = survival , later on = risk to aquire chips. If you take too much risk for too much of your chips , its tough to guarentee one win. Now if you play that way day after day and play ALOT , well you will be ok in the long run.
Damn I ramble too much , but it was aimed at Tadzio , and I would fold this hand being the 10th hand in.( after being re-raised all in).
Thats why honestly , in the early levels of tournaments , unless im the one making a move on somebody , I typically don't raise more then double the BB if the blinds are still relatively low. Too many people want to call anyway , so risk litttle and take a flop. Once those blinds become precious , then start making these kinds of calls imho.
Im shutting up now
Posted Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:44 am GMT by mrcfkane
poker is stupid......only game where the best play bankrupts you
Posted Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:45 pm GMT by Muck
| mrcfkane wrote: | poker is stupid......only game where the best play bankrupts you
|
Yes you can make the best play and lose but:
- You will never go bankrupt because a good play never has their entire bankroll riding on a single game.
- You need bad beats to maintain the illusion that poker is just luck.
Posted Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:27 am GMT by gumbie
| mrcfkane wrote: | | i make the easy read and call his JQ, |
right
Posted Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:07 pm GMT by mrcfkane
i am not saying that i read like phil ivey, but anyone who has half a brain and played with this guy for more than 5 hands would know he wasnt very strong
Posted Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:28 am GMT by UrAteUp
Just when you think you can read a player the lines in the book changes. Pushing an all-in without a nice strong hand is wreckless and will always cost you in the long run. Good solid poker pays, stupid donk attempts don't and often cost you. Just because an all-in move works once to get you blinds, doesn't mean it will work all the time.
10 hands into a tournament and you have reads on people? Impossible in online poker. Yes you can tell if the guy is LAG or TAG within 10 hands but you can't have a sure read on him to know he won't call your all-in when you push with a less then perfect hand.
Posted Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:12 am GMT by supafrey
| Quote: | | Pushing an all-in without a nice strong hand is wreckless and will always cost you in the long run. |
According to who?
Posted Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:37 pm GMT by snoogins47
| UrAteUp wrote: | | Just when you think you can read a player the lines in the book changes. Pushing an all-in without a nice strong hand is wreckless and will always cost you in the long run. |
I couldn't disagree more. As the blinds skyrocket in a tournament, waiting for a nice strong hand is silly and will always cost you in the long run.
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:42 pm GMT by Jauron
Define for me not strong please because it starts with hands that have you beat (or should) such as 22 or 33 and moves into hands that you are only a small favorite over, such as 89 suited.
But the bigger problem is you can't live with the results. I'd work on that part of your game pronto.
Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:04 pm GMT by golddog
Jauron, where you been?
I've been kind of thinking about this in a different way. Hope this isn't too much of a hijack.
How does one put oneself in a position to be successful? Not just in poker, in your work, whatever else--it's the things you do leading up to a certain point which prepare the base.
I don't remember the exact example, but I was watching some poker recently and there was a hand where the big stack called with a much worse hand but won.
I thought, "he actually won that hand an hour ago, when he made the move to accumulate so many chips that he could call any all-in by the short stack."
So, maybe a better question is, how do we avoid getting ourselves in the all-in-or-nothing situation?
Posted Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:51 am GMT by Jauron
Sick as a dog the last week and busy busy.
You've got it right though, the bottom line is was the risk worth it at this point? I'd wager it wasn't, but the OP thought it was. At anyrate you can decide you were correct (and get no real debate from me on that point) or decide you were wrong, but in the end you have to live with the decision.
Risky plays are risky...and should be entered into with the understanding of what is at risk. I can call here, and be a probable favorite, double up and be in great shape or I can fold with min loss and find a better spot. Decisions are made and are the hard part, the easy part NEEDS to be, live with it.
Posted Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:20 pm GMT by mrcfkane
ive only been playing for 3 months or so.......cash games for 1
the more hands i play the more i realize that bad beats are part of life. they are rough but in the long haul the universe pans as it should
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