Seven Card Stud Discussion Board |
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Posted Sun May 07, 2006 1:07 pm GMT by pm_french
Evening,
Excellent board for hold em discussion however I'm looking for a board which is similar but for 7 card stud, ie, predominantly stud/minimal holdem?
Can anyone help?
Regards.
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Posted Sun May 07, 2006 4:35 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
If you're asking for another site, obviously we will not advertise it here.
But if you want to talk about 7-Stud, there are a few players here (myself included), who are interested in discussing it.
Posted Mon May 08, 2006 1:19 pm GMT by BeerWench13
I love 7-stud. I play it for small stakes since I'm not really good at it yet, but it's a great game. There are quite a few here who play it regularly also. Ask away.
Posted Mon May 08, 2006 1:42 pm GMT by JewishPete
Feel free to ask anything.
I have played stud for years, and can probably help you a bit.
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 4:40 am GMT by JohnnyCache
Pete, man, you should right a little on here about the game from the ground up. . . the discussion in this section is a little . . .tepid. . . and I for one, would really like to know stud the way I know holdem.
For example, what's better to have to start with - a pair and a good kicker, or a run of three/three of a suit? Am I correct in assuming trips are some of the best starting deals, or do they get passed by straights and flushes more then I'm thinking?
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 7:25 am GMT by BeerWench13
| JohnnyCache wrote: | | what's better to have to start with - a pair and a good kicker, or a run of three/three of a suit? Am I correct in assuming trips are some of the best starting deals, or do they get passed by straights and flushes more then I'm thinking? |
Good questions. I was wondering much of the same. I don't know 7S like I know HE, so any information regarding starting hands would be great. I'm pretty decent at figuring out my opponent's hand(s) for the most part, but that's about it.
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 12:40 pm GMT by JewishPete
| JohnnyCache wrote: | Pete, man, you should right a little on here about the game from the ground up. . . the discussion in this section is a little . . .tepid. . . and I for one, would really like to know stud the way I know holdem.
For example, what's better to have to start with - a pair and a good kicker, or a run of three/three of a suit? Am I correct in assuming trips are some of the best starting deals, or do they get passed by straights and flushes more then I'm thinking? |
I could definitely work on that kind of guide if it is helpful to many people, or maybe even just a starting hand guide.
As far as the first question. Statistically, you're correct, 3 of a kind is the best starting hand. Many 'pros' insist on slowplaying trips, which IMO couldn't be any worse of an idea at a full table. I'm not sure of the exact statistic anymore, but if you are 7 handed and everyone is dealt down to 7th street, I believe it is something AROUND (do not take the statistic to heart) 59% of the time that someone will hold a straight or better.
I'm not ultra familiar with how people play online stud (most of my time was B&M) but I will say that it is a great game.
Remember you will start with trips only approximately 1 out of 499ish hands.
Always play pairs with a decent kicker any 3 to a flush, and any 3 to a straight atleast to 5th street.
My personal favorite starting hand for example is 567 suited.
Always look at everyone elses hand and the general beginners rule is that if your up cards plus your hole cards can't beat the cards that you can see of your opponents, you definitely can't beat what you can't see. It sounds a bit too obvious, but you would be suprised how many times I've seen light bulbs go on in peoples heads when they ACTUALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT! 
If you're new (which it doesn't sound like you are a stud newb, just someone who wants some info), but if you are new, I suggest starting heads up. You need to gain and analyze a ton of information, and getting started at the game it is much better to analyze only 1 other persons hand than it is to have to analyze 4,5 or 6 other peoples hands
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 12:52 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| JewishPete wrote: | | if your up cards plus your hole cards can't beat the cards that you can see of your opponents, you definitely can't beat what you can't see. |
This was the first piece of advice I was ever given and it's priceless. It save me quite a bit of cash the first few times I ever played.
I am blessed with an excellent memory, so I think 7S is really up my alley (well, that's what the hubby keeps telling me), but I'm not confident about my play yet. The hubby says I have to sit at a stud table when we go to AC just to get some experience. I remember my trepidation when I first sat at a HE table in a casino and I'd been playing for a couple years at that point. I've been playing stud just as long, but not nearly as often.
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 12:59 pm GMT by JewishPete
| BeerWench13 wrote: | | JewishPete wrote: | | if your up cards plus your hole cards can't beat the cards that you can see of your opponents, you definitely can't beat what you can't see. |
This was the first piece of advice I was ever given and it's priceless. It save me quite a bit of cash the first few times I ever played.
I am blessed with an excellent memory, so I think 7S is really up my alley (well, that's what the hubby keeps telling me), but I'm not confident about my play yet. The hubby says I have to sit at a stud table when we go to AC just to get some experience. I remember my trepidation when I first sat at a HE table in a casino and I'd been playing for a couple years at that point. I've been playing stud just as long, but not nearly as often. |
Sounds good. Try to always analyze and collect every piece of information you can. Every card dealt is 7S is vital to your hand, whether it is dealt to you or someone else.
BTW, you would be amazed at some of the dead money in casinos at 7S. Tons of stubborn old men who don't look at anything other than their own cards are rather popular in AC. Great section in SS on 7S too, btw.
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 1:13 pm GMT by kainARGH
most sites with play money offer 7cs right?
Maybe every now and again , some th-p peeps could get together and play 7cs VS one another? I would like to expand my game to get better at none hold-em poker , and 7cs is definatly appealing to me. I would be interested , anyone else? 
I say play money , as the couple sites i've seen with 7cs , they usualy don't have low limits - and my online bankroll is just sitting at a measly 80$
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 2:17 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I must say I don't agree with Pete's advice on starting hand selection, at least not the way he states it so generally. Most of the advice is good, but there are very few "always" situations in Stud. 3rd street on Stud is MUCH more complex than pre-flop betting in Hold'em.
I'll post a new thread about it, so Pete and I can debate further.
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 2:30 pm GMT by JewishPete
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | I must say I don't agree with Pete's advice on starting hand selection, at least not the way he states it so generally. Most of the advice is good, but there are very few "always" situations in Stud. 3rd street on Stud is MUCH more complex than pre-flop betting in Hold'em.
I'll post a new thread about it, so Pete and I can debate further. |
I agree, I was a bit too general when I briefly talked about starting hands. And you are correct, their are very few always or nevers in stud.
Generally though, I will play the starting scenarios I listed virtually every time I am dealt them. As we both know, this can change drastically though depending on the certain situation.
Posted Tue May 09, 2006 4:44 pm GMT by Hurricane Ham
Tight on 3rd street is always good. Crappy calls on 3rd lead to crappy calls on 4th, 5th...you get the idea. If I'm closing up the action, I'll play some crappier 3 straights and 3 flushes, but rarely will I go past 4th without improvement unless I'm drawing VERY live and the table is real loose and passive.
In my fair amount of experience, online stud players are absolutely awful. I've never read a stud book, and in all reality am not that great a stud player, but I tend to do fairly well just using common sense and keeping track of all the cards.
I was going to start a new thread for this, but while I'm here, since I've gotten back into stud, any tips on how to remember cards? Do you guys remember them in a particular order, then just count the suits, or remember each specific card?
Hand is dealt, you go ok 3 6 10 diamonds, J K spades, etc, or just go around the table and repeat, 3 diamonds, J spades, 6 diamonds and so on. I kind of mix these two methods, but screw up a fair amount unless I'm real focused. Any ideas?
Posted Wed May 10, 2006 7:41 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Hurricane Ham wrote: | | any tips on how to remember cards? |
I usually look for those that will affect my hand/draw and put them in the memory bank first. I've been blessed with a photographic memory, so I don't have to do much more than pull up the picture in my head to remember the cards unless I'm extremely tired or really, really drunk.
Posted Wed May 10, 2006 8:38 am GMT by UrAteUp
Stud is a wonderful game. I play it in casinos when I see it offered or in home games. I never played on the internet other then free-roll tournaments. Great advice by many posters so far. I for one have none to add or debate. I would recommend anyone interested in learning stud that besides SS2's chapter on stud, Slansky has an excellent book out on it. That book helped improve my stud style into a winning style and not one of playing all the way down to 7th St. with a bad hand.
Posted Wed May 10, 2006 11:46 am GMT by flafishy
As far as trying to remember the cards, just concentrate on remembering what cards were FOLDED. The cards that aren't folded are right there in front of you, so just remember the cards that were folded and use the ones that weren't as a point of reference.
Don't try to remember the folded cards exactly, say for instance, King of spades/7 of hearts/3 of diamonds.
Just remember the values of the folded cards. 7 3 K 5 2. And notice if more than one of them were of a particular suit. So on fourth street, you're thinking to yourself "73K52 were folded, and three hearts are gone."
I find it easier to remember the values in order that they were folded instead of trying to rearrange them. I make it a sort of mantra: "73K52/three hearts ... 73K52/three hearts." And as I look around the table, I can evaluate the threat potential of hands that are still live by matching them up with my mantra.
I don't have the gift of a photographic memory, and I struggle with trying to remember cards. This is the best way I know how to do it. Wenchy, if you have a photographic memory and have no trouble remembering cards, you've already got a huge edge on most stud players. You should be running to a stud table right now.
I don't agree with some of what Pete said about starting hands -- particularly when it comes to three connectors and three suits. In general, if there are no Broadway cards (TJQKA) in such hands, I'll limp in with them, especially in a particuarly passive game. But I won't play them to a raise, nor will I hold onto them if I brick fourth.
You'll throw a lot of money away chasing straights or flushes that have little backup potential -- especially if you do happen to catch the fourth on fourth street. It's very difficult to throw away a hand when you have four suits on fourth street -- and that fifth one never comes. And the odds are that it won't. So if you're playing a hand such as 5c2c8c and catch 3c on fourth, you have to be amazingly disciplined to toss it if you're facing a couple of opponents who are betting out with big pairs. If you miss your flush but pair up a couple of your cards, you still have a very marginal hand.
However, if you're playing a hand such as JcAc3c and catch 5c on fourth, you still have potential to make a decent hand even if your flush does miss. Catch another A and another 3 along the way, and now even if you do miss your flush, you've still got a hand with a decent chance to win at showdown.
Read any expert advice ... Sklansky, Zee, Adams, West ... they'll all tell you the same thing. 5c6c7c sure looks pretty, but longterm it's a loser -- and an expensive loser. That's a great starting hand for Stud hi/lo, but it's a lousy one for stud high.
Most of the time, if I get to showdown with a straight or a flush, I've happened to catch it accidentally while I was playing a big pair or something. I rarely head into fifth street chasing one.
I don't play much Omaha, but I think stud and Omaha share the concept that your drawing hands need to be versatile. If the only real chance to win a hand is to nail the highest straight, you're going to need big pot odds to keep drawing. But if you're working on a hand with two or three different draws and already have at least a marginal made hand, you can get aggressive and don't need big odds.
Posted Wed May 10, 2006 1:39 pm GMT by Hurricane Ham
| flafishy wrote: | | It's very difficult to throw away a hand when you have four suits on fourth street -- and that fifth one never comes. And the odds are that it won't. |
If your flush cards are pretty live, say only 0 or 1 dead, aren't your chances of making the flush near 50%? I'll definitely take those odds, especially with some big cards.
And 5c6c7c is can be a decent stud hand as long as you're drawing live. Catch that 8c or 4c on 4th, and you're a favorite over just about any hand at that point, no? Plus it's so damn pretty!
Posted Thu May 11, 2006 10:55 am GMT by flafishy
| Hurricane Ham wrote: | | flafishy wrote: | | It's very difficult to throw away a hand when you have four suits on fourth street -- and that fifth one never comes. And the odds are that it won't. |
If your flush cards are pretty live, say only 0 or 1 dead, aren't your chances of making the flush near 50%? I'll definitely take those odds, especially with some big cards.
And 5c6c7c is can be a decent stud hand as long as you're drawing live. Catch that 8c or 4c on 4th, and you're a favorite over just about any hand at that point, no? Plus it's so damn pretty! |
NEAR 50% means that it's not going to hit you more often than it will. And that's if your flush cards are completely live and stay completely live to the river. But with a big card or two, you do have more outs, which was my point. Without big cards, it's a losing proposition unless you're drawing against at least three opponents.
And "as long as you're drawing live" is a key point here. But this thread is an introduction for beginners, and I wouldn't advise those new to stud to get in the habit of playing those hands because it's very easy to get into trouble with them. It's very difficult for even experienced players to throw those hands away when they need to be tossed.
It's the equivalent to playing something like A5 suited or KQ or something in holdem. Beginners and even a lot of experience players tend to want to go to the mat with hands like that.
Posted Thu May 11, 2006 2:21 pm GMT by pm_french
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | If you're asking for another site, obviously we will not advertise it here.
But if you want to talk about 7-Stud, there are a few players here (myself included), who are interested in discussing it. |
Sorry, a bit late replying here.
Fair enough dude, however, lets be honest, the players on here are predominantly HE players. I want to discuss matters with 7CS players who play a lot more of this than they do HE for instance and this board probably cannot supply this. I've been reading this forum for a while now (with the odd posting) and cannot fault it at all for HE advice.
Anyways...one question I do have.......
What's the typical amount in (relation to the betting structure) you need to be sitting down with. For instance, if you were going to be playing on a 0.50/$1 what would you need?
Posted Thu May 11, 2006 3:25 pm GMT by Hurricane Ham
Anywhere from 20-40 big bets is usually fine. I tend towards the 25-30 range, but leaning higher could never hurt. Antes + more streets = you needing more to have some wiggle room.
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