how to play this KK from the button |
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Posted Tue May 16, 2006 2:00 pm GMT by jbark
Hi,
im fairly new, OK reallly new, and was doing ok until i blew it on this hand in a $1000 freeroll:
hero: had only played two hands past the flop and i had won both with pocket pairs.
villian: very loose/aggr to the point of almost stupid
i am dealt KK sitting on the button with $1800, utg(tall stack) limps in, couple of folds and villian limps in with $3200,
folds to me i raise 4xBB, sb folds, bb folds
tall stack folds, villian calls
flop: A 4 6 rainbow
villian checks,
Hero??
I blew this hand bad, and would like to learn what i should have done. i was mad at myself for blowing this and forgot to go get the hand number so i could post the history.
what do you think?
thanks
jerry
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Posted Tue May 16, 2006 2:03 pm GMT by jbark
thought i should add some more info:
about half of the field was out at this point, blinds were 30/60
HTH
jerry
Posted Tue May 16, 2006 2:10 pm GMT by Soup_dog
I am betting that you pushed all-in on the flop and he called you with an ace. The problem is that ace. Sure he might just be a loose cannon but are you willing to bet your tourny life on it? I would have made a standard continuation bet about 600 and see what he does. He pushes over the top then you have a tough choice. If he was as loose as you say I would probably call and be out of the tourny... like you.
Posted Tue May 16, 2006 2:13 pm GMT by Skribbles
At the start of tournys don't focus on the amount of BB you raise. When you raise it to 240 and the guy has 3200 in his stack, odds are he is not folding many hands. I would have made it at least 350+ and possibly more if the limpers were prone to limp/calling raises.
The ace is always scary on the flop when you hold KK as many players (espcially in freerolls) will not fold an ace pre-flop. As this hand played though, I would have bet out the size of the pot. If he calls you can be pretty sure he has the ace. Now if you think he has a weak ace and may fold it, bet out/push the turn. If not, check and take the free river. If he comes leading back at you on the river, easy fold IMO. If not, use your discretion as to whether you bet the river or not. I'd lean towards not as you wouldn't have many chips left to continue with if you lose.
Posted Tue May 16, 2006 2:32 pm GMT by jbark
thanks for two nice replies!
based on his earlier play i thought he was on crap and that the flop did not help him. both of you agree that a pot sized bet would be the way to go given i thought he had zip. a pot sized bet would have been ~750 or half of my remaining stack. that might have pushed him off, i don't know because he was the villian i had pushed off his hand earlier with a medium PP. and i had beaten him earlier after slow playing AA UTG, i flopped the set, pushed and took a big hunk of his stack. so????
what i did was to check and take the free turn, a 7. villain checked and i thought it was no help to him so i pushed he called with pocket 7's and the river was blank. bye-bye to me 
thanks a bunch for the input,
i'll do better next time!
cheers
jerry
Posted Tue May 16, 2006 2:47 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
Intresting ending to the hand. I agree that a pot sized bet on the flop would be in order, however if the villain was as loose and stupid as you described him, he's not folding to a pot size bet there. If you were against a solid player though, he would fold. So just keep in mind for future situations such as this to bet the flop, but if they come over the top it's an easy fold.
Posted Wed May 17, 2006 10:38 am GMT by Soup_dog
Yep, that looks like one of those situations where you were just destined to go broke. Tough luck on that turn card but he probably would have called any flop bet.
Posted Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 am GMT by jbark
Thanks again for the replies, i keep learning and improving because of them.
I was not real upset about it except that i thought i should have pushed sooner rather than let him see the set. but that may not have worked either.
thanks again
jerry
Posted Sun May 28, 2006 3:00 am GMT by AHBrownell
Even if this guy is loose/maniac I doubt he would call with pocket 7s on the flop if you had bet a decent amount. After raising preflop I would always bet here.
1) If you bet you represent an Ace; any smaller pp folds.
2) He limped preflop and then called. This probably means that he doesn't have AA and he likely has a hand that wants to see a cheap flop --- suited connector or small pp.
3) If you check you do not learn any more information. You need to know where you are at - and you don't want to be sucked out on!
Posted Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:45 am GMT by MrDarling
| AHBrownell wrote: | Even if this guy is loose/maniac I doubt he would call with pocket 7s on the flop if you had bet a decent amount. After raising preflop I would always bet here.
1) If you bet you represent an Ace; any smaller pp folds.
2) He limped preflop and then called. This probably means that he doesn't have AA and he likely has a hand that wants to see a cheap flop --- suited connector or small pp.
3) If you check you do not learn any more information. You need to know where you are at - and you don't want to be sucked out on! |
In a real game this is probably right, but on a freeroll?
You really can never tell if villain has a A, small PP or on some kind of a draw. And on beginning of the tourney they will also call allin with nothing.
So bad beat. But yeah, in normal situation bet the flop as well
Posted Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:03 pm GMT by davepoker
I might have raised to 6x the big blind and then bet the size of the pot on the flop.
heres why- if he called you with an ace, he would likely raise you on the flop and you could have folded for a small loss.
Posted Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:34 pm GMT by fiezk
| davepoker wrote: | I might have raised to 6x the big blind and then bet the size of the pot on the flop.
heres why- if he called you with an ace, he would likely raise you on the flop and you could have folded for a small loss. |
Even with a raise of only 4*bb PF, a pot sized bet on the flop would be half of hero's stack. I do, however, agree that raising big in these type of tourneys is probably the way to go - let them make a big mistake by calling big raises with trash.
When you've raised pre flop and an ace flops you simply have to bet (unless you get many callers). Someone limp-calling very rarely means that they have an ace, and with your aggression PF you're representing one.
Posted Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:31 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
I either go all in on the flop or check/fold. If you make a bet thats half your stack, you might as well go all in since you are committed at that point. You'll be getting more than 3-1 on your money if he raises you all in, and you just can't be that sure you're beat.
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