Posted Thu May 18, 2006 2:00 am GMT by jimmer
Due to personal circumstances, at the moment I'm not playing as much poker as i would have liked. Therefore i am trying to improve my theory and general poker knowledge. in short, i'm trying to work out what i do and how i do it.
The scenario is simple. your're sat at the table with 3,8 offsuit and put in a big raise. everyone folds. Do you show your hand?
Personally, I have never shown my cards, good or bad. However i wonder whether this is something i can add to my game.
i understand it could work. i play regularly with my brother-in-law, and we know each-others game inside-out. he bluffs alot and often shows his bad hands. this puts me in a position where i tend to play weaker hands against him, especially if we're heads-up.
so to sum up, i'm asking; do you ever show your hands? if so when, (& why), if not why not?
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Posted Thu May 18, 2006 2:08 am GMT by vyni
I never show mine. If they want to see them, they gotta buy them.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 2:12 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
If you're going to show a hand, you better have a very specific reason to do it. Ask yourself 2 questions:
1. What will my showdown try to establish?
2. Will my opponents perceive it that way?
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 6:05 am GMT by Cricket_Fire
If I'm Big Blind and it's folded around to me, sure, why now
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 7:31 am GMT by UrAteUp
I never have and I never will show my cards. If you want to catch me in a bluff then you have to buy my cards to see it. Showing cards is a big no unless like Diamond says you have an alterer motive for doing so. Even then I say make them pay to see your cards.
When you show your cards your telling other players the kinds of hands you play, how you play them pre-flop and how you play them with the board. That is just too much information to feed other players.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 8:02 am GMT by BeerWench13
For the most part, no, I don't show my cards. However, I have found instances where showing can be beneficial. I netted $96 off of a hand because I showed my bluff the previous hand and tilted my opponent. Basically, if you don't have an ulterior motive, don't show. Unless you're setting up a player (usually this should be a rather volatile player) for action in later hands, you should make them pay to see what you're playing.
Like Ure said, you give away a lot of information when you show your hands. You should only do so when you're giving away specific information that you wish your opponent to have. Otherwise, muck 'em.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 10:09 am GMT by Icec0o1
I think you should show them once in a while, and not only the bluffs but it's all complex. In general I think you gain advantage because you can alter your table image in any which way you like. Your play is too tight and people aren't calling your bets? Show a few bluffs or 2nd pairs. Playing aggressive and people are calling you down with pocket 4's? Show a few good hands that didn't get called and act as if you only bet when you have it.
If you never show your cards, you're removing a whole dimention from the game. It's like trying to play poker without attempting to get reads on people. You should exploit everything possible to increase your profits. I think people don't like to show their cards because it's too complicated to figure out the effect it'll have on your oponents but a smart enough person shouldn't have any problems with that.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 10:44 am GMT by ORGrinder
i'll sometimes show my cards if i'm on the BB and it's folded around to me (meaning even the sb) just because it doesn't really matter. they get no real information by that show since i didn't do anything, and it's sometimes entertaining to see ppl's reaction when they see what they ended up folding to.
otherwise, short of some sort of unusual situation, i don't show.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 1:29 pm GMT by jimmer
adding to my own post.
i've just remembered this time when annie duke was playing phil hellmuth. they were the last two in a torny and the cards were dealt. now i don't remember the specifics, but lets say annie had Q3 and phil had Q6. the flop is dealt KQ3 giving phil a pair of queens and annie two-pair. annie puts in a small bet, phil raises, annie re-raises. phil thinks for ages and folds.
Annie turns over her 3 ONLY. phil then thought he had lost, having had the better hand.
a couple of goes later, in a simular situation, annie bets, phil raises, annie reraises knowing she has the nuts and traps phil hook, line and sinker.
this obviously worked a treat.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 1:32 pm GMT by BeerWench13
It was a 9 she showed. Excellent example. If you're playing a volatile player and you see they've just made a tough laydown, showing them one or both cards to show (or make them think) your hand was inferior to theirs can set them off on tilt. It all depends on the situation and who you're playing.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 1:37 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
I show just about every hand. It's probably just as effective as showing none; especially if you play the same hand differently twice.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 2:41 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
| jimmer wrote: | | Annie turns over her 3 ONLY. |
Isn't there a rule against this? Or is that only when you're at a showdown?
Also, to OP,
I don't mind showing my cards every once in a while. Sometimes for a bluff, sometimes after playing a really good hand, or whatever the situation may be. You can't play the hands you're dealt exactly the same each time, so really they don't get very much info out of it.
For example (regarding PF play), if you get AKo UTG+1, you'll raise it up, let's say 4xBB. At the end of the hand, your opponent ends up folding to a bet on the river, and you feel like showing your AKo. The very next hand you're dealt AKo again. This time you're UTG, but you obviously don't want to raise it 4xBB because subconciously your opponents will target AK to you once again. So this time you can either raise it 5xBB, 3xBB, or even limp, hoping to check-raise an agressive player at the table.
Basically all I'm trying to say is that showing your cards is only giving out info if you play the hand the exact same way you would immediatey afterwards.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 3:00 pm GMT by Cricket_Fire
| ORGrinder wrote: | i'll sometimes show my cards if i'm on the BB and it's folded around to me (meaning even the sb) just because it doesn't really matter. they get no real information by that show since i didn't do anything, and it's sometimes entertaining to see ppl's reaction when they see what they ended up folding to.
otherwise, short of some sort of unusual situation, i don't show. |
Doesn't it suck when it's folded around to your BB w/ AA or KK 
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 3:12 pm GMT by weirdofreek
I will show if I have been getting alot of good hands and have been raiseing them. I do this so I don't get too loose of a table image. Also works if you have just pulled off a big bluff and now have a good hand for the same reason. "I only bet when I have it"
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 3:14 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| LeafsFan1122 wrote: | | Isn't there a rule against this? Or is that only when you're at a showdown? |
Phil folded. She showed only one card, after he folded, to make him think he'd folded the best hand. It worked like a charm. Phil (as usual) tilted off the rest of the tournament.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 3:17 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
I was thinking about a situation when it comes down to a showdown, and the first player shows a pair of 3's. The next guy (his only opponent), shows one of his cards, the Ace, let's say (and there's an Ace on the board). He obviously wins the pot, but is he allowed to only show one of his cards at a time like this?
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 3:19 pm GMT by kainARGH
Actually with the anni/phil reference ,
Phil had tp good kicker Annie had top two.
I also think anni made a mistake showing phil her hand , as phil was putting her on two pair even saying he was putting her on two pair. By showing him just the one card , I would think phil more easily justified putting her on two pair.
just my thoughts~
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 3:24 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| LeafsFan1122 wrote: | | He obviously wins the pot, but is he allowed to only show one of his cards at a time like this? |
You have to show both to have any claim to the pot.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 3:25 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: | | LeafsFan1122 wrote: | | He obviously wins the pot, but is he allowed to only show one of his cards at a time like this? |
You have to show both to have any claim to the pot. |
Ok, I thought so. Thanks.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 3:26 pm GMT by snoogins47
| kainARGH wrote: | Actually with the anni/phil reference ,
Phil had tp good kicker Annie had top two.
I also think anni made a mistake showing phil her hand , as phil was putting her on two pair even saying he was putting her on two pair. By showing him just the one card , I would think phil more easily justified putting her on two pair.
just my thoughts~ |
Well, if she doesn't show, I think he has full confidence he was behind.. if she shows one card, there's at least a little doubt. I dunno. It could probably go either way.
I show cards all the time. It's way more fun that way.
Leafs: The rule isn't always enforced, and especially at home games, but generally you have to show both of your cards, even if only one is relevant. If you bet and your opponent folds or whatnot, the hand is over, so you can pretty much do whatever you want.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 4:15 pm GMT by Ryan231
I'll show some hands if I'm planning on changing gears soon. For example if I've been playing tight-aggressive for a while and then I feel like switching to a more loose style I'll show a few big hands and then change it up. The same goes for the reverse, if I want to start to play tight then I'll show a few big bluffs then tighten way up and wait for the people I stole from to get into a pot with me.
Also theres a very specific situation where I like to show my hands and its when I'm in a MTT and I'm up in chips and its when I'm against the blinds only. If my blind "partners" (hes SB when im BB, I'm SB when hes BB) have decent stacks then what I'll usually try to do is establish sort of a truce between them if we are at the table for a long time together. Basically what I do is just flat call and then only bet if I have it and show it when I do, never bluff at them. I find I lose a lot of money in blind vs blind situations when I get something like top pair and they get something like 2 pair or a big draw. It doesn't take long before you realize if they are going to play ball, its not like we are working together we just aren't attacking each other because we can both dent each other fairly hard so its not really worth it. I find by showing them my top pair or just checking it down to them they will do the same for me so I know when either of us bets we have the best hand and the other guy folds.
I find this tactic really good for long tournaments because like I said above I personally tend to lose big pots in blind vs blind situations when I have a marginal hand and think the other guy is stealing from me or get too aggressive.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 4:40 pm GMT by jimmer
| kainARGH wrote: | | I also think anni made a mistake showing phil her hand , as phil was putting her on two pair~ |
No, phil may have put her on two pair. BUT by annie showing the lower card only, phil then thinks he folded the best hand. Because of this, he is then pissed off and BECAUSE OF THIS, goes on tilt.
If the card was never shown, phil would assume he made the right call to fold.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 4:44 pm GMT by jimmer
| Ryan231 wrote: | | I'll show some hands if I'm planning on changing gears soon. For example if I've been playing tight-aggressive for a while and then I feel like switching to a more loose style I'll show a few big hands and then change it up. The same goes for the reverse, if I want to start to play tight then I'll show a few big bluffs then tighten way up and wait for the people I stole from to get into a pot with me. |
yeah, this makes sense to me. i never thought of it like that.
Posted Thu May 18, 2006 5:15 pm GMT by tame_deuces
I usually don't show, I don't think it has much value to do so either.
I've made a couple of exceptions though, usually on 'floats',...where you call on the flop w/position and steal the pot on turn, it really shakes people up. But I don't think it does anyone any good, and I always regret doing it.
Posted Fri May 19, 2006 1:29 pm GMT by foldhappy
I think showing is more useful in tournaments. Even then I only do it occasionally, usually as the aformentioned "switching gears" strategy. In ring games I play mostly short handed and NEVER show. My reason is summed up in one word: Control. Ocassionally I'll find a loose aggressive table where I can sit, play tight and 3 bet & cap the hell out of people. My usual MO however is to find a timid table and run them over. I don't sit down to just play my good cards. I sit down to find a way to take control over the table and beat on them with bets until they all turn into calling stations, constantly check to me and fold the blinds around to me a lot. I think too much of my edge in these cames comes from the fact that my opponents don't know how to adjust to short handed games. Why give them a playbook? Another thing you have to consider, aside from your goal in showing (usually to tilt someone or to adjust your image) is what ELSE it could do. Here's a couple that come to mind:
-you may only be trying to tilt one player, but you're giving info to the whole table.......plus anybody watching.
-you may show a bluff and then not get any good cards for a while.....then when you're stuck playing a mediocre hand aggressively, you're more likely to get called. This works in reverse as well.
-you may just have validated their play (I love when people show me hands for this reason)
Basically the way I look at it is the more they have to guess, the less sure they are of their hand as it progresses........let them hang themselves.
Posted Fri May 19, 2006 2:22 pm GMT by JMX360
Never, unless it's quads or better.
Posted Sat May 20, 2006 1:47 pm GMT by khaosanroad
almost never. Why let someone feel good about their laydown?
If they fold their 2 pair to my set. I don't want them to be happy. I want their laydowns to haunt them.
Posted Sat May 20, 2006 1:54 pm GMT by kingetje
| khaosanroad wrote: | | I want their laydowns to haunt them. |
 nice
Posted Sat May 20, 2006 3:12 pm GMT by BMiller1980
I will very rarely show a hand. In a recent MTT i raised preflop 4 times in a row...the first two were position raises with crap hands. The next 2 were AK and AA...When it was folded I decided to show my AA so people wouldnt think I was just being a maniac. At that point in the tournament, picking up the blinds was crucial. The last thing I wanted was for the blinds to put me on crap the next time i try to steal.
Posted Mon May 22, 2006 2:47 am GMT by JohnnyCache
I will show in three circumstances:
Heads up and the guy is betting a lot, I'll turn over garbage as I fold, building a "too solid" image in his mind while I get ready run back over him
A really, really volitile player - if I think showing him a bluff will make him call forevermore AND that's what I want from him - IE my next play will be gutting him with a made hand
and finally, if I make a "show me yours I'll show you mine" agreement I honor it.
I don't show in the BB because if my right hand neighbor is timid enough to fold the SB for half a bet, I want him to stay that way.
Posted Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:42 pm GMT by Dexaan
If i've got a tight image (usually) and people aren't calling my bets, i'll put in a raise with garbage specfically to try to get more callers next time. I remember one tournament i was dealt KK, AQ, AA in a row, got no callers, so I figured they'd fold to my raise with 83o next hand. Showed it, next time I pick up a good hand, i get a couple callers.
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:31 pm GMT by mindgame
Perfect example of why you shouldn't play (poker) with women.
A. They are distracting.
B. (see A)
C. They are evil.
D. They are way smarter than we think
E. (see A again)
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:33 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| mindgame wrote: | Perfect example of why you shouldn't play (poker) with women.
A. They are distracting.
B. (see A)
C. They are evil.
D. They are way smarter than we think
E. (see A again) |
Quoted for absolute truth... 
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:52 pm GMT by mindgame
Yep...
and you haven't even SEEN the BeerWench.
(see Items A, B, E)
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