Making the third raise with K preflop |
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Posted Fri May 19, 2006 8:47 am GMT by shorn7
Ok, here is another KK question that I seem to struggle with. You are in EP with KK and make the standard 3x to 5x raise. The button re-raises you by 2x to 3x the current pot, representing a big hand.
1. Do you make the third raise preflop and hope to get all in? If so, what are the considerations? If not why? Are there situations where you wouldn't make the third raise?
2. Same situation only you are in LP and make the second raise and an EP player comes back over you. Do you just call or try to again get it all-in preflop?
The obvious dilemma(s) for me here are: (1) wanting to maximize value when I am ahead, (2) not wanting to make a mistake on the flop and potentially get bluffed out, and (3) wanting to be able to get away as cheaply as possible if I am behind.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Steve
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Posted Fri May 19, 2006 8:52 am GMT by tame_deuces
OOP I think its best to just get as money in as possible, it will make for easy flop play. With position you can flip the coin and make the decision harder for the other guy.
The annoying thing is if you smoothcall with position and an ace flops, because a cont. bet from the other guy doesn't necessarily mean he has an ace. This situation alone stops alot of people from getting tricky with KK.
That being said it can be a great way of stacking someone off when they hold QQ or JJ.
So its a choice of which of these you can live with.
Posted Fri May 19, 2006 2:59 pm GMT by Phil14312
OOP I like pushing, his re-raise signals strength, and its going to be a +EV situation to throw it in...you won't only get called by AA, lets put it that way.
Playing out of position is tough when the dreaded ace flops.
Posted Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:28 am GMT by gol4pro
This is so ridiculously situational it isn't funny. This situation is almost solely dependent on the opponent.
There are some people on my buddy list where I would 4-bet here preflop without blinking 2x. These are the people that have a reraise range of 88+, KQ, AQ+.... although few and far between, they'll often get committed preflop with as little as TT. Against these types, it's much easier to just get the money in preflop.
Against a LAG, I'm going to be very inclined to see the flop and get the money in on any decent flop. Sure LAG's get AA to, but you're never going to get away from KK against someone with a high PFR.
I'd say take a flop and get it in on anything that isn't Axx or QJx.
Against a TAG, I might muck right here. It depends. If villian has a PFR of ~6 or less, he's more than likely not reraising with QQ.
When in doubt, take a flop and get it in then. Most people are good enough to fold QQ preflop.
Posted Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:36 am GMT by Jauron
The old, TAG is holding AA so I folded story.
I will tell you I got away from KK vs AA twice, both times post flop and both times I was positive they had it, lucky for me both times I got shown I was right. Most of the time it gets paid off, it unatural to think you are going to be laying that down most of the time without an Ace falling on the board. I've watched top pro's (on TV) pay it off enough to stop beating myself up when it happens to me. Both times it was the betting patten that tipped me off against that one person. A simple reraise isn't enough, nobody is so tight they ONLY reraise with AA on the button.
You have to be right nearly everytime to make it profitable IMO, unless we are talking a tourney where once is enough to end your day. Hell I've thrown AA away post flop more often when I was sure I was beat than I have KK vs AA. It's just not going to happen that often unless you can read that player's soul.
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