how is this right,odds say I lose more then the weaker hand? |
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Posted Mon May 22, 2006 9:18 pm GMT by kainARGH
Me A10
3 other players A3 KQ KJ
All of us offsuite, all of us all in preflop.
Odds say I win 29% while odds say KQo wins about 31%
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Posted Mon May 22, 2006 9:33 pm GMT by vyni
Because one of your outs has been burnt by the player with A3. Remove that player and your odds jump to 49% over the KQ at 31%
(Edited for correct link/odds, old link had a3 in dead pile as folded.)
Posted Mon May 22, 2006 9:36 pm GMT by vyni
I wont comment on 4 players all in preflop with those hands... lol
Posted Mon May 22, 2006 9:44 pm GMT by kainARGH
| vyni wrote: | | Because one of your outs has been burnt by the player with A3. Remove that player and your odds jump to 44.5% over the KQ at 34% |
But KQ also has one of his cards being used by another player as well. I guess it's because my A is over both his whole cards and oen is missing so my 10's are less effective? I still don't quite get it though as KQ is missing a K just like i'm missing an A.
| vyni wrote: | | I wont comment on 4 players all in preflop with those hands... lol |
Oh believe me its not my fauly 
2 limpers preflop and I'm SB. Button - KQo makes it 3bb's, I re-raise to 10BB's and both the limpers call then button decided to go all in for another 4 bb's call call call.
Posted Mon May 22, 2006 9:49 pm GMT by vyni
I believe it come down to both hands high cards have equal outs (each with one spent), and even though your A takes his K, on the low cards his Q dominates the ten.
All these hands in with various high cards but no pocket pairs really makes this one a roll of the dice. Curious to know who took it in the end, cause in the end this one is just dumb luck.
Tell me a three on the river. lol
Posted Mon May 22, 2006 9:58 pm GMT by kainARGH
| vyni wrote: | I believe it come down to both hands high cards have equal outs (each with one spent), and even though your A takes his K, on the low cards his Q dominates the ten.
All these hands in with various high cards but no pocket pairs really makes this one a roll of the dice. Curious to know who took it in the end, cause in the end this one is just dumb luck.
Tell me a three on the river. lol |
pot odds baby!  My EV was 2 dollars for a 15$ wager lol. 29% of the time I was winning a 60$ pot with 15$ invested.
I'm still not sure I understnad the logic behind his hand winning 2% more then mine but meh.
FYI the flop came Q high with nothing special on the turn or river.
Posted Mon May 22, 2006 10:16 pm GMT by vyni
Think of it like this.
Of the KQ vs AT, each hands high and low cards have equal outs as far as making the pair: 2 on the high card, 3 on the low card. So both hands have a 50% better chance of making the pair on their low cards than the high cards. Your 10 carried 50% more weight than your ace, and the same of his queen over the king.
His queen verses your ten.
Odds are just plain fun.
Posted Tue May 23, 2006 12:32 am GMT by kainARGH
I still don't see how this holds true.
his king doesnt make him the nuts ( 1 pair wise ) .... my ace does.
The only reasoning I'm seeing here is that if I hit my lower cad for a pair he has 2 outs kings and queens, but if he hits a queen I'm only drawing to an ace. but I still don't understand -
If A10 is 60/40 favorit over KQ , then suddenly its 4 way and we both still have the same number of outs, and now suddenly KQ gets the advantage. I understand KQ is connected but how does it become a FAVORIT 4 way.
*edit* maybe this is why
I nail a 10 4way im fighting 3 overs. He hits a q or K and hes only fighting 1 over. That must be it. Yay I can sleep soundly tonight.
Here are some interesting scenarios.
A10 KQ 23o 55
A10 and KQ are nearly even A10 slightly ahead
A10 KQ 23o 99
A10 again becomes 2% less of a favorit then KQ
Maybe I'm just tired, but i still just don't get it
Posted Tue May 23, 2006 10:58 am GMT by foldhappy
This is simpler than it looks. The KQ is even to hit and win with a pair against the A 10 since they each have 5 "live" cards to hit top pair, but the A 10 loses if he hits his pair and the KQ also hits one of his. KQ has the best straight outs and has the KJ dominated while the A3 is drawing pretty thin. I'm not too mathy, but it seems to make sense to me.
Posted Tue May 23, 2006 11:58 am GMT by golddog
Although the suited-ness of the hands may be important as well.
For example, if it's A  10  vs K Q  , you pick up the unlikely four-heart and four-spade boards.
In that scenario, KQ is 39.58 heads-up; if the KQ are different suits than yours, 40.04. I expect a similar change four-way if the suits are defined.
So, probably not enough to ever affect a decision, I guess.
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