Posted Wed May 24, 2006 4:31 pm GMT by Johny
PokerStars Game #5039829107: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/05/24 - 17:17:28 (ET)
Table 'Elara V' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: speedycarlos ($48.50 in chips)
Seat 2: maninblack20 ($18.95 in chips)
Seat 3: rnm8411 ($102.15 in chips)
Seat 4: Dean Kize ($40.55 in chips)
Seat 5: phipsi336 ($19.50 in chips)
Seat 6: polchoix ($45.20 in chips)
Seat 7: TheGoodThief ($131.70 in chips)
Seat 8: Johny4455 ($48.95 in chips)
Seat 9: andressmag ($84.15 in chips)
rnm8411: posts small blind $0.25
Dean Kize: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Johny4455 A  A 
phipsi336: calls $0.50
polchoix: folds
TheGoodThief: folds
Johny4455: raises $1.50 to $2
andressmag: folds
speedycarlos: folds
maninblack20: folds
rnm8411: folds
Dean Kize: folds
phipsi336: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** 5 5  9
phipsi336: bets $1.50
Johny4455: calls $1.50
*** TURN *** 5 5 9 6
phipsi336: checks
Johny4455: bets $4.50
phipsi336: calls $4.50
*** RIVER *** 5 5 9 6 T
phipsi336: bets $3
Johny4455: raises $12 to $15
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Posted Wed May 24, 2006 4:50 pm GMT by zinn0
raise the flop.
Posted Wed May 24, 2006 5:12 pm GMT by Johny
Why? I'm curious.
Posted Wed May 24, 2006 5:53 pm GMT by Phil14312
I think he's got a 9 or he's drawing, either way he's probably calling a modest raise on the flop, so I raise. I can see where you were headed in the hand. I'm guessing villain had something like 9T.
Posted Wed May 24, 2006 7:07 pm GMT by zinn0
Because with his leading the flop, he is basically telling you that the flop is very non-threatening to him. He either has a 9, (likely) or he has a 5, (less likely), and he is going to call a healthy raise with a 9, and is going to reraise you if he has a 5.
Raising does two awesome things, it gives you information and it builds the pot.
Posted Wed May 24, 2006 7:11 pm GMT by Johny
Raising him on the flop gives him an easy fold if he has a naked nine.
If he does call the flop with a nine, do you see him calling me down to the river? I would have shown a lot of strenght, he can get away from it on the turn.
Posted Wed May 24, 2006 7:29 pm GMT by Geno
By calling on the flop and then having him check and then smooth call your big bet on the turn, you have no idea where you are in the hand.
Posted Wed May 24, 2006 7:35 pm GMT by Johny
I was expecting him to lead the turn so that I could put in a raise. It didn't work out that way though.
When he checks the turn I expect to be ahead though...
Posted Wed May 24, 2006 8:24 pm GMT by tame_deuces
This hand wins the prize for 'most donkbets of the year'.
(no insults intended, I just found it funny).
Posted Wed May 24, 2006 8:28 pm GMT by crack
Ok, time to have a look at this hand.
What has failed to be mentioned is three things that are quite important to this hand analysis imo.
1) What is the general table like? Loose/Tight Aggressive/Passive
2) The player has limped UTG
3) What is this players limping requirements UTG
So, again we have very little information to work on except the hand itself. This is going to make it difficult to properly digest the hand.
You make a standard raise preflop. Yes that's ok, however I with a limper(s) I generally make it bigger.
He comes out with a bet on the flop. The flop does look quite threatening against an unknown player.
Without any reads this player could be as crazy as to be holding rags with a 5 in it, or he could be sat there holding a full house with a set of 9's.
I think it is wrong for people to reply "He probably has a 5 or a 9" without having any information on the player.
What we can go on though is the fact he has limped UTG and called a raise then bet out the flop. If he is an ABC NL50 player, flopping a full house here they are likely creaming in their pants and only thinking about slowplaying, same with trips.
I have no info on the player, but I am raising on the flop here for two reasons.
1) there is a chance he is a crazy fishy holding a flush draw and trying to get a cheapish draw
2) He is holding an overpair and will call.
You think that when he checks the turn and calls your bet he is ahead? Why? and if so, why do you raise him on the river.
If you think that you are probably behind here then just call th river bet.
You see, I have done my best to go through this hand, but the comment I can give here is you may have played the hand right or not, depending on what the player is like. Give more info please and I will have another go.
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 5:25 am GMT by Johny
First off I'd like to point out that I've recently switched to cash games. This is a learning process so bear with me.
Something I've noticed is that I'm having a hard time getting action with my big pairs. I find that at this level, more players can put you on a hand which makes it more difficult to get any action. I usually get respect when I raise pre-flop because I don't raise many hands. They also notice that I never raise with garbage. So I win a lot of small pots with big pairs.
With this in mind, I'm trying to find ways to play big pots with my big pairs. Is this right or wrong, I'm not sure but I'm trying to find out. If I played the hand badly that's fine, like I pointed out I'm trying some new things.
I forgot to mention I was multitabling, so I don't have any good reads myself. I fairly sure this player was loose pre-flop and tighter postflop. though. A limp utg from him could me anything.
Now for the flop, he came out with a small bet. Like I said if I raise here and he has just a pair/ overcards he will probably lay it down. If he doesn't, he'll probably shut down on the turn because the pot is getting bigger.
Now the turn play is standard, he checks and I bet. He now just calls. Now I'm fairly sure I'm ahead here, it looks like he just has a nine or some kind of draw.
Now for the river, the 10 doesn't change much. If he had a flush draw he missed and if he had a straight he had it on the turn. Now he comes out with another weak bet. Now if he had a hand that beat me, isn't he putting any more money in sometime in the hand? I thought this was a steal or maybe he though his nine or overpair was good. Even something like 109. The way he played the hand I didn't think he had me beat, hence my raise on the river.
| Quote: | | You think that when he checks the turn and calls your bet he is ahead? Why? and if so, why do you raise him on the river. |
"When he checks the turn I expect to be ahead though..."
I said I thought I was ahead after he called my bet on the turn.
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 5:41 am GMT by Johny
I forgot to mention that my opponent only had $20 to start the hand. That's the main reason I played the hand the way I did. I was trying to get more of his stack into the pot so that he would be "pot commited" on the river. I manage to get $6 of his $20 stack into the pot by the turn, more than 25%. Now on the river the pot is close to the sizeof his stack, so he'll have a hard time laying down a pair.
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 8:30 am GMT by crack
Apolgies, I misread that part of your post.
I see your way of thinking to try and get more money into the pot, I think you can get more in there by playing it more aggressive though, in general. If he is tight postflop then take his betting on the flop as a sign of strength and get him commited by the turn, if you can.
You have position, you can control the pot and the play, use it.
"Something I've noticed is that I'm having a hard time getting action with my big pairs. I find that at this level, more players can put you on a hand which makes it more difficult to get any action. I usually get respect when I raise pre-flop because I don't raise many hands. They also notice that I never raise with garbage. So I win a lot of small pots with big pairs."
Well, if you want to make more money with your big pairs you need to raise with more hands. If it's folded to you in LP then open raise with anything, steal the blinds. This will give you more hands to play. If you get caught bluffing then it's not all bad. they will know you are not just raising with the goods.
I really don't like to show my hands, so I would not recommend bluffing and then showing them your bluff. Things like that though will make people play a bit looser against you.
Hope this helps.
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 8:34 am GMT by UrAteUp
I am interested in how this hand came out for you Johny. My only changes I could see making would be pre-flop. There I would raise more pre-flop. Sure you might not get any callers but better that then to let someone get the goods on you and bust your AA. Post flop with AA there is only one move I am making here...push.
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 9:14 am GMT by crack
Where are you making this move, UrAteUp?
The flop, turn or river?
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 11:43 am GMT by supafrey
Slowplaying with aces on a low paired board isn't bad at all. Two pair is no longer a threat, and any hand that we're losing to is most likely ALREADY beating us... not going to draw out.
Figure out if you're winning somehow (that's your job) and it will tell you whether or not to milk it for later. More cards probably won't hurt you too much.
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 12:35 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| crack wrote: | Where are you making this move, UrAteUp?
The flop, turn or river? |
Pre-flop I am making a 5-6xBB raise.
Post flop (right after the flop)...it's push city...all-in baby.
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 12:48 pm GMT by crack
So you push 94bb's into an 11bb pot on a seemingly non threatening flop. Why?
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 2:13 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| crack wrote: | | So you push 94bb's into an 11bb pot on a seemingly non threatening flop. Why? |
We only want to get called by hands that have us beaten.
Posted Thu May 25, 2006 3:13 pm GMT by Johny
| supafrey wrote: | Slowplaying with aces on a low paired board isn't bad at all. Two pair is no longer a threat, and any hand that we're losing to is most likely ALREADY beating us... not going to draw out.
Figure out if you're winning somehow (that's your job) and it will tell you whether or not to milk it for later. More cards probably won't hurt you too much. |
That's the kind of flop that I'll slow play aces with for the exact reasons you said. I don't make a habit of slowplaying big pairs, but with the right board I will.
I think your right crack in the fact that I should be opening more pots, that seems like the answer to getting more action.
What do you think of the hand Supa? Your opinion would be appreciated.
Posted Fri May 26, 2006 5:14 am GMT by Johny
Villain called all-in and showed 8 7 .
Posted Fri May 26, 2006 8:25 am GMT by UrAteUp
| crack wrote: | | So you push 94bb's into an 11bb pot on a seemingly non threatening flop. Why? |
First let me say I play mainly micros where the action can and does often get loose and wild. I have seen players push all in pre-flop with 2 suited cards in hopes of the miracle flop. This is something you rarely see in larger games such as $100NL and above.
Any flop can be a threatening flop as this instance showed. I have seen people call a 6xBB raise pre-flop with seemingly garbage and hit a good flop.
I play large PP cautiously but aggressively. I usually start with a very large pre-flop raise (5-8xBB). That large of a raise is usually a dead give away that I am on a large PP but you will still find callers in the group (especially in micro levels). After the flop if it didn't appear too threatening I push. I want to protect my hand as much as possible and get as many people out of the pot as possible. If I only take down double my investment in that hand then so be it but some gain is better then none or a lose.
Now if I hit a flop and pick up another A then I will slow down and work at building the pot and keeping players in the hand. The only time I won't slow play in this situation is if I see a 2 flush on the board with more cards to come. No way do I want to give a donk a chance to draw out on me. I only slow play nut hands. Seems to pay better the slow playing second nut and finding out villian has the nuts.... 
I am not saying this is the right way to play AA. I am just saying this is the way I have found the most success playing it.
Posted Fri May 26, 2006 2:53 pm GMT by tame_deuces
When I played micro limits I got my money in on alot of different flops when I held aces, you'll get called with the weirdest things so I don't have a problem with that tactic at all actually...In the micros it seems a push will sometimes have a bigger chance of getting called by a funky hand than a single raise will.
But this hand isn't micro stakes, and therefore pushing isn't a good option.
Posted Sun May 28, 2006 1:35 pm GMT by mrcfkane
dont like the huge river bet...that last bet by him looked like a milking bet rather than any kind of push. when reading the hand i put villian on a boat, i think a call on tlhe river is alright but not the massive reraise
it kind of sucks you ran into the straight but it seems that everyone online plays any suited connecter
Posted Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:06 pm GMT by KosTes
oh really? 
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Posted Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:31 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
go f*ck yourself you spamming piece of shit, and how dare you interupt a running thread!
Posted Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:32 pm GMT by UrAteUp
not the first one asshat has stepped into with his spamming garbage.
Posted Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:45 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Diamond,
The admins don't want us to quote spam links.
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