Posted Sun May 28, 2006 4:09 pm GMT by cobi
I was extremely bad beaten and I don't know what I did wrong...
Blinds were (after currency change) about 10/20 dollars...
my hand: 6 8 suited. I called preflop the 20 dollars.
someone reraised it to 80 dollars ! I called because of if I get "the hand" I am lucky... I could afford if I lose.
Flop: A 6 5.
I had the middle pair. My opponent raised to 180 dollars. It was obvious that he didnt have the ace.
I had about 700 dollars left... maybe now my mistakes come: I went ALL in.
he thought a long time and CALLED. Cards were flipped over.
He showed 4 5 suited !!
Turn was 3; now he had an open straight draw but also a flush draw (1 suit was the A at the flop and now the 3 had the same suit).
I hoped that the river won't be 2,5,7 or a spade....
the river was 7 + spade.... he didnt won because of his straight but because of his flush !!
I was so sure he was bluffing from the beginning. Actually I was correct with my thoughts but at the end it didn't help.
Was it a mistake to go ALL IN after the flop? if I just had called, he would have raised the turn for sure because he had the open end straight and the flush draw...
Should I reraise to 500 dollars instead of going ALL in ?
Maybe you tell me it was a bad call from the beginning; maybe yes. but I was so sure he didnt have such good cards. Sometimes you feel it by his betting in previous games.
I have to add: it was NO heads up. 1 called preflop for 10 dollars and folded the 80 dollars.... the guy with his 4,5 and myself were NO blinds (I was one seat before him to do the decision and called the 10 dollars)....
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Posted Tue May 30, 2006 8:53 am GMT by shorn7
I am ok with your original $20 call and I guess if the stacks are deep enough, you could argue that calling the $80 was OK too (marginal, but OK). But once you only get a small piece of that flop, you have to let it go. Unless you are SuperMan with X-ray vision, the guy has shown a ton of aggression and an Ace flopped. I suppose if you really thought your hand was good, then just call the flop and see what he does on the turn. But 99.9 times out of 100, you will only be called on the flop with an all-in to a hand that murders you. Sure, you happened to be facing MegaDonkey this time, but playing this way will most certainly cause you to go broke quickly.
Sorry if this sounded harsh, but I really feel like you played this hand poorly. Got unlucky yes, but I think you played it as badly as your opponent.
Posted Tue May 30, 2006 11:50 am GMT by cobi
the problem only to call the hand would have been followed by a enorme raise of the other player after the turn:
there he had an open end straight draw and a flush draw... even if I had an Ace at that time the whole thing would have changed anyways.
I want to say: it doesnt matter if I had AK or 8 6 when I was sure he was bluffing: the result at the end would have been exactly the same.
maybe my ALL IN gave him to think that I was bluffing as well. Allright; I really don't understand why he called with his bluff.
There were a few calls before he raised preflop. So I could win a bit more than only his bets.
I thought poker is also a game how to read other people.... but what does it help if it doesn't work at the end (ok this time it didn't work).
Posted Tue May 30, 2006 12:12 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
how many ppl were playing?....wut were your positions?...was this a ring game or a tournament?
normally, 68s is a terrible hand, and you should almost never call w/ it preflop...bluffing w/ a bad hand is fine, but calling w/ one is not, cuz if you think the other guy is bluffing, you still have to be able to beat his bad hand, otherwise you may just as well be playing craps
Posted Tue May 30, 2006 12:39 pm GMT by shorn7
I don't deny that you made a good read here. But I am telling you that 99.9% of the time when you make this play, you will be behind.
Poker is definitely situational. But it is extremely rare when you can put a player on such a specific holding unless you had been playing with him for a long time.
I just think in this case, given the information you provided, you trusted your read too much and I worry that you will do the same again and come up against a really big hand.
Posted Tue May 30, 2006 12:55 pm GMT by TxShadow
It's been said, but when you post your hand for analysis, make sure you give positions and chipstacks. Be more specific when listing the board cards as well if you could.
Other than that. If stacks were deep, and it wasn't raised, I could justify seeing a flop with 68s sometimes to try to bust someone. If I didn't flop a good draw or 2 pair though, I can't really see continuing on that flop. I also don't really see how you knew your opponent didn't have an A.
Bottom line is that if you decide to play trash cards, you are often going to get yourself in trouble like you did here.
Posted Tue May 30, 2006 2:39 pm GMT by supafrey
| shorn7 wrote: | I don't deny that you made a good read here. But I am telling you that 99.9% of the time when you make this play, you will be behind.
Poker is definitely situational. But it is extremely rare when you can put a player on such a specific holding unless you had been playing with him for a long time.
I just think in this case, given the information you provided, you trusted your read too much and I worry that you will do the same again and come up against a really big hand. |
*summary*
"just becuase you do everything right, doesn't mean you did anything right, because I don't think it's right sometimes."
Posted Wed May 31, 2006 8:25 am GMT by UrAteUp
Where you went wrong was by over playing bad cards.
Posted Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:39 am GMT by weirdofreek
Against a raise and a reraise I am pretty sure one has an Ace. What read did you have to think otherwise?
Posted Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:21 pm GMT by cobi
| weirdofreek wrote: | | Against a raise and a reraise I am pretty sure one has an Ace. What read did you have to think otherwise? |
first of all: he never reraised preflop that much.
second: if he had the ace he wanted me to call the flop; but his raise was much too high....
Posted Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:51 am GMT by Tadzio
I had a similar hand recently. There was a guy in my SnG with a very healthy stack and he was playing the table bully by overbetting everything... really cowing the table. Anyway, I noticed over the course of the game that he overbet a bit more than usual when he held nothing. I ended up seeing a flop from the button with Jd9d in an unraised pot and the flop came As 9h 4s. The guy overbet enough for alarms to go off in my head, there were folds around to me and I decided to play my read and went all-in. He showed JsTh and the turn and the river were spades, bye bye stack.
Should I have laid back and waited for a monster to slowplay? Maybe, but being ahead 4:1 is a pretty good spot to be in when your money's in the middle. And, really, the guy should've folded. The guy's chip lead had really turned him into a maniac and I wanted to take advantage of it before someone else did. Instead, I gave him all my chips and made an early exit. Depressing.
Now, putting all your money in the middle with a mediocre hand based on a read isn't the ideal, I'll admit. But sometimes you gotta follow that feeling. And if your read is right, and the guy calls you, and he sucks out... well, there's not much you can do about that.
Posted Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:20 pm GMT by gol4pro
Given the logic you displayed here, and your question, I really don't think you should be playing 10/20 NL unless you have A LOT of money to burn.
Raising to 500 instead of pushing this flop is pointless for obvious reasons.
Online, it would be next to impossible to make a play like this barring a dead-on read of someone's betting patterns. Because this was live, you have the advantage of physical tells, which it sounds like you picked up on very well.
Given your read, the play is fine.... and you lost as a 80/20 favorite.
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