Marginal Flush with Re-draw |
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Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:11 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
$1/$2 6-max NL game on Stars.
I'm in the SB with about $240. I get dealt the 10  4 .
UTG folds, but the next 3 players call. I complete from the SB. BB min-raises. Everyone calls, and I make a crying call, almost sure it's a waste.
Flop comes 10  3 2
Ok, not bad, top pair with flush draw, backdoor straight draw and straight flush draw.
I decide to cautiously check.
The BB bets $5. I'm willing to believe he has a big pair now, and he's playing it stupidly. The button calls $5. I put in $5 more to see what happens.
Turn is 5 .
I decide to make the "donk"play and bet out. I throw out $30, almost the size of the pot. Comment?
The BB min-raises to $60.
Button folds.
Should I be willing to believe he has like A K here? I think a big pair with a high is more likely, but what's my best move here?
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Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:59 am GMT by crack
Me thinks your flush is good atm, even without any info on Villan unless he is real tricky. Most players with nut flush draw here will cream themselves they have some action and smooth call to try and keep the button in almost without thinking.
You didn't include villans stack size which is quite important in deciding your next move imo. What was it?
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:46 am GMT by Ciso_B
| Quote: | Flop comes 10 3 2
Ok, not bad, |
thats a bit of an understatement. Yeah, i think theres a good chance your ahead here, most would check riase the turn with a flush so he might not put you on the flush. I'd be inclined to check/call from here. If river brings another diamond though, you can pass to a big bet.
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:13 am GMT by Phil14312
Villains stack will change my play here:
relatively short stack: I just push all-in on the turn, he will probably call everytime with an overpair and a
Has you covered: I probably raise another 100, leaving me with about 80 back (if I did the really, really rough math right). I can then re-evaluate a diamond on the river and push any non-diamond, probably committing villain to call with their now 2nd best hand.
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:12 am GMT by shorn7
I think your initial read is more likley than he has a flush. I don't see why he would raise with the nut flush here. I think you should punish him and push right now since he likely has a high diamond with his pair (probably the A). In this case, since you are out of position, I don't think his stack size matters that much. I want to make him pay a really bad price to catch his 6 outer (since one of the diamonds is no good for him).
I also agree with ciso...that is a great flop for you, one in which I probably would have led at anr re-raised for a big number. I realize your Ten might not be good, but you might be able to get villain to lay down an overpair if you are really aggressive on the flop. And, even if you get it all in on the flop, you have 14 outs twice to beat an overpair (not including the runner runner str8), so you are close to even $$.
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:50 am GMT by UrAteUp
Get all your chips in there now. Unless this guy has AK (which is highly doubtful based on his play so far) then your a sure winner and just have to get all the money you can from this hand.
The pay villian is playing it I would have to put him on a PP higher then 10s or an A10 and he thinks TPTK is the king hand here. I might even give him more credit and say he has two pair but I doubt he has a flush.
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:56 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Sorry for not putting in Villain's stack size. He had about the same number of chips as me, maybe a few more (we'll say ~250 for sake of argument... I do believe he had me covered slightly).
I decided on a slightly unorthodox play. My thought for his his most likely hand was AA with the A . He had clearly shown that he valued his aces highly, so I made a risky move.
I smooth called with the intent to check-raise the river if no diamond fell. I know many people will not like that play, but let me explain my reasoning. I think if I re-raise all-in here there's a good chance I won't make any more, because he won't think his aces are good, and he won't be getting quite proper odds to call with a 4-flush. But, I might be able to make some more by feigning a drawing hand (like KT or AT with a high diamond) and getting him to bet more on the river, assuming a diamond doesn't come (in which case I would have lost anyway, so it doesn't really matter). Given the line he's taken, I don't think it's a big risk to check on the river and take the chance of him checking behind me, because he obviously wants to play his hand strongly. If no diamond comes, I think I can expect him to bet at least $40-$60 if I check.
But I scrapped that plan on the river, which was the 6 , giving me a straight flush. Now there's no point in checking, because he'll go to war with the A anyway. I bet $50, he went all-in, and I called. Then he cussed me out for playing T4s against his super-strong pre-flop raise. 
Am I a total donkey for thinking about that play?
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:36 pm GMT by kainARGH
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Am I a total donkey for thinking about that play? |
At these limits....maybe. But UI'm a big fan of the 'un predictable' image. I think your smooth call says your also waiting for a big diamond or even a pair. This sets up villan - if your read was correct - to possibly overbet the river.
I'm a fan of teh tricky poker 
Posted Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:08 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Phil14312 wrote: | relatively short stack: I just push all-in on the turn, he will probably call everytime with an overpair and a
Has you covered: I probably raise another 100, leaving me with about 80 back (if I did the really, really rough math right). I can then re-evaluate a diamond on the river and push any non-diamond, probably committing villain to call with their now 2nd best hand. |
Quoted for truth.
Posted Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:14 am GMT by kingetje
Good stuff. So what was his hand?
Posted Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:10 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Oh sorry, I thought I posted it. A A .
Posted Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:43 pm GMT by JpForum
Umm diamond why didnt you bet on the flop. The way i see it is if you bet then you could eliminate any possible flush draws
Posted Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:02 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| JpForum wrote: | | Umm diamond why didnt you bet on the flop. The way i see it is if you bet then you could eliminate any possible flush draws |
But I also risk getting bet out of the hand by the BB, who may start to think his big PP is in danger of getting cracked. My hand is good, but it's really not that good, so there's three reasons I don't bet:
1. I have no information on how this flop hit other players.
2. I do not want to get raised out with a big bet.
3. I don't think I'm getting any FD's out on this flop, especially if they have overs as well.
I figured checking was a decent play and I could always check-raise depending on what happened. But after that tiny BB bet, I figured any raise would be met with a BIG re-raise.
Posted Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:31 am GMT by shorn7
I don't think you are a donk for thinking the way you did. However, the only issue I see is that if you are mis-reading his hand (and he doesn't have a big diamond), a D on th river will kill your action. Add that to the fact that if he holds AA or KK with a big diamond, he might call your allin on the turn and that there is only 1 diamond that can help you on the river, I think it is best to move on the turn. If you both had $2k in front left over, then I could see the argument for potentially playing the way you did. But, you only had around the size of the pot left if you call his bet...not enough in implied space to take the chance IMO.
Lucky for you, your read was right and the perfect card came. :D
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