Playing Top Pair with no Improvement |
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Posted Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:25 pm GMT by lwestatbus
We've all had this situation--we're dealt a big pocket pair, it remains the overpair, and the hand does not improve. We bet like crazy, but have one (or more) callers stay with us to the river and then get that dreaded river raise. Sometimes somebody flopped top pair and thinks we were betting AK. Sometimes the threat in a coordinated or suited board is obvious and we can adjust. But it often seems that somebody has made a set or two pair and we're screwed. And sometimes, whether we have the PP or not, aggressive betting to the river will drive people out.
But it seems to me that an unimproved overpair has so many vulnerabilities that betting it on the river may not make sense, especially if you have multiple callers.
Any thoughts on this from the gang out there? How do things change between limit and no limit? In or out of position?
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Posted Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:40 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
So much of this depends on position. If we're last to act, and everyone checks to the river, it's easy to check behind, because there's not much value to betting, since we'll probably get at least called (if not raised) by a better hand. If we're one of the first to act, it sucks, because your check opens the door for someone else to make a steal bet on the end. In limit, you can't get into too much trouble by check-calling.
This is really one of those discretionary things that gets easier with experience. I don't know that there is a "by the book" answer.
Posted Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:13 am GMT by shorn7
I face this a lot in NL games and am struggling with how to deal with it.
You get your preflop raise called and your pot sized bet on the flop whne you have an overpair. Now what? Sure, you can fire another big bullet again, but if villain has towo pair or a set, you are throwing $$ down the drain. And, you can't check, because that invites a big steal and tells villain "I have AK and am relinquishing" even though you have better.
I am going to start trying making blocker type bets on the turn and river and then perhpas getting away if raised. I am just tired of committing my stack with an overpair and either winning no more $$ or getting called by a set and losing. Bad combo.
Posted Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:59 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
I can't tell you how many times I've stacked someone with an over pair when I hit my set. I find its a huge weakness in many peoples games, so you're not alone in this.
Posted Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:19 pm GMT by khaosanroad
I hate this situation. It's why i often prefer having AK. Easier to lay down. You never know if the guy is trying to push you off of his TP or if he has a set.
Posted Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:06 am GMT by tame_deuces
check/calling in limit and blockbetting in no limit will usually do the trick.
Posted Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:48 am GMT by misterjokerboy
As a fairly new player I have trouble with this as well. I just wanted to ask what a block bet is?
Posted Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:23 am GMT by tame_deuces
| misterjokerboy wrote: | | As a fairly new player I have trouble with this as well. I just wanted to ask what a block bet is? |
Its basically a bet where if raised you can feel fairly certain your hand is no longer the best one. The important thing is just to keep the entire betting 'under control' so if villain pushes your own bet won't have built the pot to a size where it is now laying you too good odds to lay down your hand.
The size of a block bet is a matter of feel, potsize and stacksize.
Let's say your holding aces on a board of 9 T Q, two hearts, the turn is a 7 and the river is a Q...no hearts came and you are out of position. Instead of checking, you fire a reasonably sized bet into the pot, this way a busted flush or busted high straight draw won't fire a big bluff into the pot and scare you into folding. Most opponents who raise a riverbet on this board are probably beating a pair of aces.
The idea is that if the pot is a 100, then a 50$ blockbet will lose you 50$ when raised, but atleast you won't lose a 100 from being bluffed out of the pot.
In a case where the pot is allready too big to lay down your hand in a comfortable manner, you might as well just check/call in no limit too and atleast hope to induce a bluff from your opponent.
Posted Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:28 am GMT by misterjokerboy
I see, that makes sense. Thanks for the info
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:22 pm GMT by BBQSquirrel
This happened twice last night......This is a $0.05/0.1 @ pokerstars
One hand I had AA in BB, reraised 4x to 8x against button, everyone else folds.
Flop JT6 rainbow, I bet $1, he called. I put him on AJ (TPTK) or AQ/AK (10 outs to him). Or he could be slow-playing KK/QQ. Or he could be slow-playing JJ or TT a set, which means I would be toast.
Turn 8. The possiblt straight doesn't really scare me too much. I bet $1.9, he called again.
River T, not a great card, but I'd be more worried about a 9 or J. I checked, he put me all-in for $3+, and I called, beating his KQ.
Next I had JJ in 4th position. Raised 4x, got called behind by a couple players.
Flop 842 rainbow. I bet 2/3 pot, 1 caller.
Turn another 8. Another 2/3 pot bet got called.
River 5. I check-called an all-in bet. Villain had 33.
To both opponents it probably looks like that I have AK or AQ and missed, as my river checks induced their bluffs. On the other hand, in both hands they could have a pp-turned set or hit trip 10s (or trip 8s in the 2nd hand).
I am fortunate that things went my way last night. I'm not sure they're the correct play in the long run, though. But if we worry about a set every hand we probably shouldn't be playing poker.
Posted Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:08 am GMT by Jauron
My goal with a big pair is usually to get it down to no more than 2 callers. If I end up with more than that, I rarely go broke with it unless I improve.
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