Posted Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:24 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
So I'm sitting at a 10NL table, been there for quite some time new players are coming and going. Im in the SB with AQ  with 4 limpers before me so I opt to just complete the blind instead of raising. Is this a bad play? I've been playing TAG but doubt the other players are really paying attention.
That was sort of specific so i'll ask it in a general form.
When playing in the SB, which happens to be the worse position post flop, should I be raising hands such as AQs or JJ when there are a few limpers before me? It goes without saying to raise with stronger hands like AKs, AK, QQ-AA to icolate, but when I see AQs or JJ in that situation, I see more of a "hope for great flop and stack someone" sort of hand, and when the flop misses you, just easily lay it down. To clairify, this is NL cash.
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Posted Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:42 pm GMT by crack
I usually limp there in that sort of situation. It all depends really who I am against. Unknowns I like the complee.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:36 am GMT by Poto
I think that's a reasonable play. You would have to raise pretty much here and would probably be called by a minimum of one player which leads to playing a big pot out of position. It's a good idea to play very conservatively from the blinds.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:51 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Depends on how tight the players are and what range of hands they will fold, call, or reraise with. I mix up my play with hands like this between calling and raising, although I really think you ought to be raising a lot more often than calling with a hand as good as JJ.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:57 am GMT by UrAteUp
If you want to get a read on other players then you got to give them some information about you. In other words raise that suited AQ preflop. I would be looking at 4-6xBB raise. See how many people call you. If the entire table folds to you then you have your first bit of information about this table and collect a few blinds in the process....  If you get several callers just play the cards but watch the people.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:22 am GMT by Johny
I'll give you a brief idea of what I raise with out of the blinds vs. limpers.
I raise with 10s-As and AKs, AKos, AQs vs. 3 or more limpers. With 1 or 2 limpers, I'll also raise with 8s or 9s and AQs or AQos and AJs.
Now I will raise with weaker hands depending on the situation, but I will almost always raise with these hands.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:53 pm GMT by shorn7
I alternate between calling and raising here. If I raise, I make it a big number so that I can either win the limp or isolate and narrow down the range of hands of the caller.
Often though, when you limp and do flop a great hand (like top pair with a FD), no one gives you credit for it so you can play it straightforwardly and still win a big pot.
As in all poker situations, varying your play in spots like this will make you a very difficult player to play against.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:25 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
Thanks for the responses.
I limped with my AQ , flop is K 7 7 , forget how the bettig went, turn is T , and yeah. Me and donkey get all in and he was able to limp with his K7o because I didnt raise, so he stacked me.
On a board of K 7 7 T 5  though, when he goes all in in 10NL, I can't put him on a boat. Could have such a variety of hands that it would be quite stupid not to call.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:26 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| LeafsFan1122 wrote: | Thanks for the responses.
I limped with my AQ , flop is K 7 7 , forget how the bettig went, turn is T , and yeah. Me and donkey get all in and he was able to limp with his K7o because I didnt raise, so he stacked me.
On a board of K 7 7 T 5 though, when he goes all in in 10NL, I can't put him on a boat. Could have such a variety of hands that it would be quite stupid not to call. |
If it helps, I would have called, too.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:41 pm GMT by zinn0
As would I.
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:42 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | LeafsFan1122 wrote: | Thanks for the responses.
I limped with my AQ , flop is K 7 7 , forget how the bettig went, turn is T , and yeah. Me and donkey get all in and he was able to limp with his K7o because I didnt raise, so he stacked me.
On a board of K 7 7 T 5 though, when he goes all in in 10NL, I can't put him on a boat. Could have such a variety of hands that it would be quite stupid not to call. |
If it helps, I would have called, too. |
Same here.... . You always have to raise AX hands in any position. This hand demonstrates the number one reason why you should.
So you don't end up handing over your chipstack to villian on a silver platter... 
Posted Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:25 pm GMT by Cheech3398
The manner of play differs so much from person to person.
I would in fact give a raise here to protect against a set or random draw. or even 2 pair off the flop for that matter. The point is with a hand like AQ, you should be happy with scaring everyone out of the pot right away, so a raise would be worth a shot.
However, i understand that pot and implied odds justify a call here as well. Mix up your play and do it differently each time.
Posted Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:57 am GMT by shorn7
I don't think the result of the hand changes my opinion that you should alternate between calling and raising. I go broke on this hand too since there are too many hands that you beat to fold.
I think a key to the decision between calling and raising is the number of opponents in the hand. With a lot of players in the hand, I probably raise to thin the field. With 1 or two, I might just call and hope that someone else flops a weaker Ace so I can get some action. Yes, you are taking a risk of stacking someone else here, but that only happens if you make broadway or the nut flush. As long as you can get away from top pair (which it is much more likely you will make) when someone brings the heat, then calling can be a good way to change it up.
One other benefit of calling and then showing down such a strong hand is it makes you very difficult to read too which may win you other pots and get you free cards where you want them.
Posted Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:18 am GMT by UrAteUp
| shorn7 wrote: |
I think a key to the decision between calling and raising is the number of opponents in the hand. With a lot of players in the hand, I probably raise to thin the field. With 1 or two, I might just call and hope that someone else flops a weaker Ace so I can get some action. Yes, you are taking a risk of stacking someone else here, but that only happens if you make broadway or the nut flush. As long as you can get away from top pair (which it is much more likely you will make) when someone brings the heat, then calling can be a good way to change it up. |
I still find this a bad move. If you limp with AX hands you totally cripple their power and take them from being heavily favored to only slightly favored VS many who may limp in. Raise with premium hands everytime. The way to change up your play is by varying the raise.
Case in point of this. I was playing in a MTT moons ago and got delt AA. The first time I got it I raised 4xBB and got two callers. Needless to say my raise play wound up putting both players out. A couple hands later I am in LP and get delt AA again. There was one limper before me and so not to scare him out I did not raise. Flip came out K7x-rainbow. I bet out like half the pot. He pushed. I had to make the call and got to see he limped in with K7. The moral here is he probably never would have limped with this hand that knocked me out had I raised pre-flop.
| Quote: | | One other benefit of calling and then showing down such a strong hand is it makes you very difficult to read too which may win you other pots and get you free cards where you want them. |
I can understand this and can agree with it, but don't do it with strong hands that limping will only weaken if not played properly.
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