AK, third hand in $4 180 person SnG |
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Posted Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:59 pm GMT by Kalbelgarion
PokerStars Game #5441512859: Tournament #27478126, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2006/07/03 - 13:52:48 (ET)
Table '27478126 17' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Rfrost69 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: hightrafic (1480 in chips)
Seat 3: superdude99 (1470 in chips)
Seat 4: Skant 2005 (1360 in chips)
Seat 5: Rafe128 (1630 in chips)
Seat 6: vatoloco76 (1720 in chips)
Seat 7: brutus34 (1480 in chips)
Seat 8: nickleminer1 (1360 in chips)
Seat 9: Kalbelgarion (1500 in chips)
Skant 2005: posts small blind 10
Rafe128: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Kalbelgarion  
vatoloco76: folds
brutus34: folds
nickleminer1: calls 20
Kalbelgarion: raises 60 to 80
Rfrost69: folds
hightrafic: folds
superdude99: folds
Skant 2005: calls 70
Rafe128: folds
nickleminer1: calls 60
*** FLOP ***   
Skant 2005: checks
nickleminer1: bets 100
Kalbelgarion: ???
The pot is $360 to me. What's the right play here?
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Posted Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:09 pm GMT by kingetje
I would raise to $360
Posted Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:46 pm GMT by UrAteUp
Raise but be careful. I do not like the 3xBB raise here. This is early in a tournament. You almost have to make that raise to something in the neighborhood of 100 to even get other players to fold out and know you have a big hand. A 60 chip raise into the pot pre-flop just isn't going to keep the evil hands for this board out of the pot. By evil hands I mean 910 and 10K. 10k has you already dominated right now. Any two spades can also be a big danger to you right now as well. A larger pre-flop raise would most likely have gotten hands like these out of the pot.
I would raise here. If villian comes over the top of your raise then lay this hand down and let it go.
Posted Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:46 pm GMT by crack
Reraise, if he calls or reraises alarm bells alarm bells.
Posted Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:10 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I don't see the villain here betting with nothing. He's got to have some kind of hand. In this situation, since I have position, I'd actually consider playing a little small-ball and just calling on the flop. Raising for value may not be possible, and any raise for information could be very expensive. But, if he does have an inferior hand, calling the flop might freeze him up on the turn. Plus, we have no idea how the checker from EP might react.
On the other hand, "staying alive early" in a tournament, especially of this type, is not an end in itself. You ought to be pushing even small edges to try and build a stack early in my mind. But in this situation, I'd just try to keep the pot small and get to showdown cheaply; maybe we can even hit a straight on the turn or river.
I might try to utilize a scare card (ie a spade) if it falls on the turn. I'd almost certainly bet the turn if he checks it to you. If he makes a big bet, at least consider folding, but it's up to you. But with a draw-heavy board and a lot of possible hands that can make two pair, I'd utilize position here, just call, and re-evaluate on the turn when you still have plenty of chips behind.
Posted Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:46 pm GMT by crack
I can see what you are saying Diamond, but I don't really agree on calling.
A lot of people question raising for information, but this could be a raise for
a) information
b) take down the pot
c) value bet
Calling gives you no information and I think makes the turn difficult to play. If he bets out, then what? If he checks then calls?
You check behind and he bets the river?
You don't really know where you are in the hand. It's a difficult situation because you don't like your hand but in this spot is too good to throw away.
I think a raise here is the best play because
a) if he reraises I will throw away
b) if he calls/checks then I can fire the turn and fold confidently to a raise
bi)if he calls that and bets the river then I can fold
c) if he calls/bets then I can confidently fold
d) if he calls/checks/checks I can take a free showdown
Apart from those I mentioned above there is a chance he can fold the flop.
I have sort of skimmed over this, but I am done with the hand if a 3 flush hits the turn.
I hope that makes sense, basically what I am saying is a raise makes the hand easier to play. That,s what makes you money.
Posted Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:35 pm GMT by TheSalche
im going to agree with skribbles here ...
the obvious play is to raise with TPTK, but take a look at that board ... it is quite dangerous and any raise besides an all-in raise or one that commits you to the pot can be called be a draw with Qx spades or 10x spades, two pair, etc
you are definetely not raising for value here, you're hand isn't good enough times to justify that
you will almost never take down the pot unless you're opponent is making a stupid bluff, or if you're opponent has something like A5
keep the pot small here and it will make the turn play a lot easier, there are a lot of cards that scare you and scare him
don't get too involved in the first level of a tourney
Posted Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:29 am GMT by crack
What you have to take into consideration here is
a) it's early in a tourney
b) its a $4 buy in.
So a raise for value, although I would rather take it down here may be in order if you get a free showdown.
You will take down the pot here a lot of the times. Ok, so it is a small buyin, but players at this level are capable of taking advantage of a scary flop. At this level I think anything that has you beat will check to you looking for the slowplay. At a higher level buyin this decision becomes more difficult. I would lead into a pf raiser with a lot of hands on this board for example, including strong and weak.
I want to keep the pot small, I agree with you there and you may say "Well craig, a raise isn't keeping it small"
No, it's not, but you can't just call all the way down here, that is the wrong move, the turn and river you don't have a clue where you are at. Did he flop straight, flush draw, two pair?
Raising will define his hand more.
A raise doesnt keep the pot small but it gives you so many other options to take down the pot than just calling the whole way and being at mercy to your opponents.
Posted Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:06 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I agree raising might help define his hand, but the cost of that information is simply too high in my opinion, Craig. I think since we have position, paying 1/15 of our stack and waiting until the turn to re-evaluate is a fine play. If he bets big, we can fold for a minimal loss. If he bets small, we can try and put him on a hand after two rounds of betting and decide to call or not. If he checks, I would certainly bet and fold to a check-raise.
The other problem with raising the flop is what happens if the first player check-raises. Then we just wasted more chips. Any raise we make here is bound to make this an expensive hand for us. Big pots call for big hands, and our hand simply isn't that big.
Posted Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:39 pm GMT by crack
The thing is, there is a good chance of being check raised, but I don't like the idea of giving him a relative cheap turn. If he has a flush draw and you just call, you are giving him greater odds to draw to it.
Speaking of a more higher stakes game, you may get him to fold mid-low flush draws also, giving you a greater chance of winning the pot. You don't want to be in the middle of a raiser and a reraiser with a low flush draw.
I failed to mention that in my posts, but it is valid.
I can see why you would call here and re-evaluate turn, but I think I prefer a raise here more often than not.
Nice healthy debate for once.
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