folded AKs preflop, too tight? |
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Posted Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:20 pm GMT by pokerpro888
So, it's a 6 man (down to 5) SNG for $10. UTG+1 has ~1000 and SB ~2000 and BB I have ~1000. Its the start of the second level, blinds are 15/30.
So I'm big blind with AKs. UTG+1 limps, SB goes all-in. I believe I'm up against a big PP (because SB was playing pretty tight so far), so I reluctantly fold, not wanting to get into a coinflip (or worse) with so little invested in the hand already.
Right play or not?
To finish off what happened, UTG+1 called too. Flop was Axx. UTG+1 had AQo, SB had QQ. I would have tripled up.
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Posted Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:25 pm GMT by shorn7
I definitely call with your hand. Why would the SB move all-in with KK or AA? Doesn't make sense. So, you are only a slight underdog to any other pair and the pot odds justify the call.
Only if you had seen this player make this move with KK or AA would I consider folding. One thing to remember is that most all-in bets mean the bettor does not want action, so it is less likley he has AA or KK in this spot.
Posted Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:26 pm GMT by UrAteUp
I can't say you did a bad thing by folding but I can't say you did good either. AK is a decently strong hand by itself but you never know if the other players have AA or KK. I probably would have made a crying call.
Next time you post...try not to include the end results so you can get a more honest opinion from people responding to your post.
Posted Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:37 pm GMT by Johny
With a stack of 33bb, a huge overbet from Villain and the fact that it's 5 handed, I call.
Posted Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:39 pm GMT by zinn0
Folding here isn't the worst move. Why risk our entire stack at this level on what is more than likely a race? We have plenty of chips left, and we only have 30 invested. There are better spots to get our money in when we still have over 30BBs.
Then again, calling here isn't the worst move either. Sure, we are risking our entire stack on what is more than likely a race. Yes, we've only got 30 chips invested, but there are only 2 hands that totally crush us. If we lose, c'est la vie. If we win, we become a powerhouse.
I could go either way on this one, depending on how I feel at the moment.
Posted Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:16 pm GMT by shorn7
Actually, only 1 hand absolutely crushes us. We are only a 70/30 dog to KK.
Posted Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:36 pm GMT by zinn0
Would you call all in knowing Villain had KK?
Posted Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:39 pm GMT by ninetensuited
generally speaking, only if i have AA, but as far as this hand goes, hell no
Posted Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:34 am GMT by MrDarling
I had almost the exact same hand in a S&G and did exactly as you did. villain didn't even go allin, he simply bet 10XBB on preflop. Only I had AQs , someone else called, villain had a KK caller had crap and the flop came Axx .
I'm actually proud of this fold.. In the end , I won that S&G.
Posted Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:17 am GMT by Johny
| zinn0 wrote: | | Would you call all in knowing Villain had KK? |
He was just saying that you're not in terrible shape most of the time.
Posted Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:31 am GMT by shorn7
That is the issue. You can't know for sure. It is the range of hands and the likelihood of each that prompt the decision. In this case specifically, it is the size of the bet preflop that gets my suspicion up. As I said before, all in bets preflop generally mean the bettor doesn't want action...why would they do that with AA or KK? Now, I am not saying those hands are out of the question, but that it is just less likely he has either becaise of the move.
Unless I had seen this guy make this move before, I am calling and hoping for the best.
Posted Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:11 pm GMT by MasterShake
I probably would fold. I'd rather be the aggressor here and push. If someone beats me to it, what's the point?
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:33 am GMT by pokerpro888
Thanks for all the comments. I'll try to keep the results out the next time.
I've been pretty successful at these sngs by just staying out of the way for the first few levels (except when I'm pretty sure I'm way ahead) and then get pretty agressive after the first 2 are gone and I pick up a decent hand.
Of course something like this can happen too. I'll save the results for a few hours. EDIT: Nah, this isn't that earthshaking, results below.
-----HAND 2------
Game #2954550024: Hold'em NL (7/15) - 2006/07/09 - 22:48:54 (ET)
Table "SixPak10 3015919 - 1" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 2: Ante777 (815 in chips)
Seat 3: holyKSK (987 in chips)
Seat 4: JimDibb (2359 in chips)
Seat 5: FritoPie (978 in chips)
Seat 6: blood1453 (861 in chips)
blood1453: posts small blind 7
Ante777: posts big blind 15
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to JimDibb  
holyKSK: calls 15
JimDibb: raises to 75
FritoPie: folds
blood1453: calls 68
Ante777: folds
holyKSK: calls 60
----- FLOP -----   
blood1453: checks
holyKSK: bets 15
JimDibb: raises to 300
blood1453: folds
holyKSK: calls 285
----- TURN ----- 
holyKSK: checks
JimDibb: bets 1984 and is all-in
holyKSK: is all-in 612
Returned uncalled bets 1,372 to JimDibb
----- RIVER ----- 
----- SHOW DOWN -----
JimDibb: shows (A Pair of Aces, Queen high)
holyKSK: shows   (Two Pairs, Sixes and Twos, Ace high)
holyKSK collects 2064 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot 2064 Main pot 2064 Rake 0
Board
Seat 2: Ante777 (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: holyKSK showed 6h and won (2064) with Two Pairs, Sixes and Twos, Ace high
Seat 4: JimDibb showed and lost
Seat 5: FritoPie (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: blood1453 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:01 am GMT by UrAteUp
The only thing I don't like about the way you played this hand is no push after the flop. Hands like this I would push right after the flop. Put the descision on the other player to see if they want to risk all their chips here.
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:05 am GMT by zinn0
| UrAteUp wrote: | | The only thing I don't like about the way you played this hand is no push after the flop. Hands like this I would push right after the flop. Put the descision on the other player to see if they want to risk all their chips here. |
bad advice.
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:17 am GMT by UrAteUp
| zinn0 wrote: | | UrAteUp wrote: | | The only thing I don't like about the way you played this hand is no push after the flop. Hands like this I would push right after the flop. Put the descision on the other player to see if they want to risk all their chips here. |
bad advice. |
I give up...damn I can't play the game worth a crap according to most everyone else.
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:18 am GMT by LeafsFan1122
UrAte, he didn't mean that in a bad way. He actually probably should have explained himself a little bit better, but I agree with Zinn. There is no need to push his big stack at such small blinds at that point. A 2/3 or pot size bet would be in order IMO.
EDIT - I misread the hand. I like the way that OP played the flop, and the rest of the hand, actually.
Saying push on the flop sounds like something you would say because you saw the 2nd pair hit on the turn. 
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:29 am GMT by Dat_Dude
I think you played this hand perfectly. You raised enough on the flop to get a weak Ace to possibly stick around. If you push your whole stack in, there is a very good chance you will leave money at the table. After he calls that flop raise, it pretty much commits the both of you to the hand since he only has 600 left, so I like the push on the turn.
You just got unlucky that you ran into one of those "well they WERE suited, you know" kinda players.
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:50 am GMT by MrDarling
well about the second hand, you raised more then the pot on the flop , guy calls , I'll be worry. All I have is a TP good kicker. Hi might hit a set , he might have two pairs. Unless I had a good read on him, I wouldn't have pushed or even bet the turn.
In this case you were right on your action and the donk got lucky.
nothing you can do about it!
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:02 pm GMT by Johny
I like the way you played the hand too. You're commited on the turn so nothing you can do.
UAU, the reason a push isn't the best line to take is because you want to extract value from your hand. By pushing, you make your opponent fold weaker hands that you want action from.
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