"Big Pots with Big Hands" against a rock? |
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Posted Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:03 am GMT by Cricket_Fire
I was just reading "No Limit Hold'em, Theory and Practice", by Sklasky. Near the start of the book, he talks about controlling pot size. The main principle in this was to play big pots with big hands, and keep the pots small with small hands.
I was wondering how you would put this to work playing against a rock. Let's call him Jim.
Jim doesn't bluff, Jim doesn't call bets unless he has a good hand (top pair or better) or a draw (atleast OESD or FD), and Jim doesn't raise bets unless he has a great hand (top 4 or 5 possible hands). Now, obviously this player is easy to beat, but I'm wondering how (if it's possible) to build a pot against him.
Say in our example, we both have $5. Pot is $0.4. We're sb, he's bb (noone else is in pot). We call, he checks.
We flop a great hand, and want as much money in the middle as possible.
Hero - 3 3
Jim - ? ?
Flop - 6  6  3
Now, how to we play a big pot against him. I'm really stuck on this one. Do we check, and hope he catches a pair on the turn? Do we hope he has a 6, a straight draw, or a flush draw, and bet out, ignoring we wont make money on his weaker hands (unless they were to catch up on the turn)?
This game hurts my head 
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Posted Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:38 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
against a rock u steal a bunch of small pots when he doesnt have a hand on flop
u play the big pots against fools who will play big pots with mediocre hands.
Posted Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:10 pm GMT by Phil14312
if you check will he bet bluffs/flush draws/straight draws? If yes, check. If no, bet and hope he has a hand...if he doesn't, you probably won't make money at all.
Posted Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:50 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
pretty much what phil said. Hes a rock, hes only going to be when he has close to the nuts. The only way you're gonna build a big pot is if he has a big hand. So bet out, if he has a hand you'll get action, if he doesnt, he'll fold. Theres really no point in checking against these types of guys. Just bet out against him and if he calls, make sure you have a damn good hand before continuing the action.
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:54 pm GMT by Gogie
Maybe the thrust of your play against a rock shouldn't be to try to win big pots from him but to avoid losing big pots to him. Get out of his way when he raises and steal the blinds and small pots when he checks.
Posted Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:34 pm GMT by Cricket_Fire
Right on, thanks for the replies
Posted Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:52 am GMT by snoogins47
To play a big pot, with a big hand, against a rock, he generally has to have a big hand too.
| Quote: | | So bet out, if he has a hand you'll get action, if he doesnt, he'll fold. Theres really no point in checking against these types of guys. |
I disagree here, especially given the hand that was posted as an example. Against anybody, betting the flop probably isn't the best course of action. In the example hand, if he has nothing now, he's drawing to top pair or better. You're going to play a big pot if he has a big hand almost regardless of what you do, but most of the time he has nothing, and most of the time he's got a reasonable chance of catching something worth at least a little more money on the next card.
However, what everybody has said is generally right too: concentrate on the small and medium pots with the rocks. The rock takes the advice from the subject of this post way too seriously: he only plays big pots with big hands, and only plays really big pots with really big hands. In general, you probably don't want to get into many big pots with rocks.
Posted Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:21 am GMT by Jefecaminador
| snoogins47 wrote: |
| Quote: | | So bet out, if he has a hand you'll get action, if he doesnt, he'll fold. Theres really no point in checking against these types of guys. |
I disagree here, especially given the hand that was posted as an example. Against anybody, betting the flop probably isn't the best course of action. In the example hand, if he has nothing now, he's drawing to top pair or better. You're going to play a big pot if he has a big hand almost regardless of what you do, but most of the time he has nothing, and most of the time he's got a reasonable chance of catching something worth at least a little more money on the next card.
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You bet out here because you probably won't be making any money on the hand anyway. I don't know what you're definition of a rock is, but I doubt he'll get too much money invested in the pot if he say, has a flush draw and hits it on the turn. He'd be too scared of the board being paired. The only way I see him putting in a lot of money on this board is if he has an over pair and hits, thus crushing you. Bet out because hes not gonna pay you off with a flush, he'll take all you're money if he hits an over set, and you might actually win some money if he has trip 6's.
Posted Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:44 pm GMT by mortaleclipse
Not betting would be stupid. You bet he folds or calls. More then likely, all said and done you win whatever pot there is. If he folds oh well and try to get another. Flopping a boat leads to usually little action cause your the one with the cards while everyone else missed by a mile. The few times you do get those callers its $$, and its great 
Posted Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:15 am GMT by ki_cz
On a side note, just wondering how profitable you guys think somebody like "the rock" would be?
Posted Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:57 am GMT by LeafsFan1122
This is a nickname for a type of player who will fold a lot. These types of players generally break even.
Posted Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:44 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| ki_cz wrote: | | On a side note, just wondering how profitable you guys think somebody like "the rock" would be? |
Posted Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:44 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| ki_cz wrote: | | On a side note, just wondering how profitable you guys think somebody like "the rock" would be? |
Depends on how effective my constant stealing from him is at frustrating him and forcing him to play out of his comfort zone. If he's not easily rattled, he's probably not profitable. If he does get easily rattled and starts loosening up and playing marginal hands, they can be VERY profitable when they decide to "make a stand" and I somehow "luck out" again. 
Posted Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:05 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
hopefully, since you have 'jim' pegged as really tight, you should be raising quite a few pots and betting out very frequently....you have a chance to win a big pot when you hit the monster because he wont believe you and will (hopefully) just assume that you are stealing again and maybe you'll get some play from him when he has a mediocre hand...you could try toning down you bet to a little less than normal to make it look like you are weak, thus maybe provoking a small attack from the rock...also if possible, bet an amount that will allow him to draw to his flush...
but yeah, more often than not, yer not gonna take him for much of a ride...thats how it goes....you keep pecking away, and duck when he plays back much....hopefully you get a monster when he gets a decent hand
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