This has been bugging me for days |
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Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:24 am GMT by jimmer
ok, i keep playing this hand over and over in my head. Where did i go wrong?
It's a 10 seater SnG. There's eight players left and the blinds are 25/50. I have 1,500 chips the BB has 2,300. I haven't played a hand in about 30 goes as i've been dealt real junk. I then get dealt QJ suited in early position. I limp in and everyone else folds until the BB who calls.
The flop is 25T rainbow. We both check. The turn is a J. He checks, I bet 75, he calls.
The next card is a Q. He checks, I bet 100, he raises 200, i call.
He shows pocket 5's giving him a set.
My thought process is this;
Pre-flop-i think about folding, but decide to limp. If the pot is raised, I'll fold. he shows no strength by calling on the bb
On the flop-he checks, which to me now shows weakness. i think about betting just to see where i am within the pot but feel i need a free card more. afterall Q-high is not good enough.
the turn. he checks again. i feel i now have the best hand, i make a pot sized bet, he calls-this really confuses me, as if he has nothing he should of folded, if he's slow playing he should of raised. he did nether.
the river-he checks i am now confident i have the best hand but unsure why he's still playing. therefore i tread on the side of caution and bet small. this is because i don't mind him folding, calling or raising. i just want some indication to his hand. he raises, but even this is not enough to cause concern. this is an easy call or not so easy re-raise. now really confused about his hand i only call.
I think i made a bad move by betting the river (100), but the whole hand stinks.
I really should know how to handle this one, but I'm struggling.
How would you play this hand? (don't be polite-i played crap, help me out!).
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Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:05 am GMT by Skribbles
Fold pre-flop.
QJ is no good to begin with.... let alone from EP.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:20 am GMT by shorn7
I am with skribbles. I would dump this preflop from EP. It is a steal hand from LP at best, but in a tournament where your main goal at least early is to protect your chips, just let it go.
But, since you played it I like the betting all the way through. Your river bet was a value bet against someone holding KQ or QT or some random other two pair. You can't check that river once you are in the hand.
BTW, mark your notes on this guy as one who will check a big hand all the way to the river...dangerous player.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:26 am GMT by UrAteUp
I agree with the other two gentlemen. In EP you want hands that you would raise with and not just limp. As for how he played this hand, well this is a classic trap played very well.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:27 am GMT by Dave B
I dont play a ton of hands, but I would like to see a flop w/ QJ suited. You need to be prepared to fold w/ just a pair, since your kicker might not be good.
However, think of it this way, QJ is against a TON if hands that will hit where you can break someone w/ 2 pair or a str8. The flush is likely good too. If there are 5-6 callers and you can see a flop w/ a limp and you make your straight you KNOW someone has a pretty good piece of that flop too.
I wouldnt commit too many chips, but you have a great chance to break one or two players and be in the driver's seat.
I would even raise w/ this hand from EP if I have a tight image so far.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:49 am GMT by MrDarling
I'm confused, I though QJs was not that bad , but if I play it from EP I'll raise it.
His play stink of 1.a draw 2.slow playing
If I'd be worry in the river, I'll simply check it. I'm still not sure what he has, I got a good hand , and I've been aggressive through out, so he will either fold for any bet, or he has me beaten - so it is an easy check, especially since you have position on him.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:06 am GMT by kingetje
| Quote: | | I would even raise w/ this hand from EP if I have a tight image so far. |
yup... i would raise with this hand when/if i played it. (in a SnG that is)
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:30 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
limping isnt too bad a play, the blinds are still pretty small and it has good money making potential. As for your play, it was prefectly fine. Villian played oddly if anything. 99% of the time the way the hand was played you will win. Its only the checkraise at the end that you should have been worried at all, and with it being such a small raise its an easy call. Just because you lost the hand doesnt mean you played it poorly. Checking 2 pair on the river when your opponent has shown no strength is a very weak move. My guess would of been that he had bottom or middle pair and was hoping you were bluffing based on the play.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:14 pm GMT by khaosanroad
I think the consensus is that QJs EP should be folded, but if you are determined to play it, you need to raise it.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:29 pm GMT by Dave B
To hell w/ the concensus, I am a tournament champion and I say you play QJ suited in an unraised pot from any position.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:34 pm GMT by Johny
There nothing wrong with playing it as long as you don't get attached to top pair.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:37 pm GMT by TxShadow
I'd limp QJs in EP, but what do I know? 
It's got a lot of potential for a big hand, and if you make something like a straight or 2-pair, you're probably going to get paid off a lot because it will be on boards that other people in the hand probably hit.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:22 pm GMT by Soup_dog
I would have played that hand if it was an unraised pot and I would have raised coming in. I would have then made the standard continuation bet on the flop and another after the jack hits.
Since he has called all the way down at this point I would be very worried at the river but you cant help but bet top two pair.
As a result, I would have lost a ton.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:23 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
| Dave B wrote: | | To hell w/ the concensus, I am a tournament champion and I say you play QJ suited in an unraised pot from any position. |
I agree, and I dont think you need to raise. The only time I wouldnt play QJs from early position is if the blinds were getting pretty high and I had a middling stack.
Posted Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:55 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
| jimmer wrote: | | he shows no strength by calling on the bb |
I'm not sure wut you meant...did you mean to say that he was the big blind and he checked preflop?
In general, i would fold qjs preflop in ep...however, there is a significant number of times that i would play it....having 8 players and low blinds helps too...also, if the table is tight and/or if i have a tight image, again more help....other than that, i think you played it fine...the villain just trapped you...it happens to the best of us...
Posted Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:38 pm GMT by zeroswarm
I can't see that you played this hand that badly. The guy hit a set of fives and took it all the way to the river because he thought he was ahead all the way to the river.
Also, whats wrong with QJs? Its not a premium hand but its a whole lot better than average, and if your getting dealt garbage you've got to play something....
Posted Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:14 pm GMT by jimmer
| shorn7 wrote: | | BTW, mark your notes on this guy as one who will check a big hand all the way to the river...dangerous player. |
Yeah, nice one-i never made notes on him as i was really screwed up about the hand-i guess he put me on tilt.
| Sid Lambert wrote: | | I'm not sure wut you meant...did you mean to say that he was the big blind and he checked preflop? |
Yes! If I'm the BB and there's only one caller, I'm worried he's limping in with junk, so I usually raise to win the pot there-and-then.
Thanks for all your responses. They're pretty varied-I guess this is an indication the hand isn't as straight forward as i thought it was-I guess i shouldn't beat myself up as much as i am.
QJ suited is a hand i'd only usually play on a loose table. (which it was!), or in late position with alot of callers. I don't consider this to be a preimum or semi/premium hand-especially in EP. Because of this I limped and should of probably raised or folded. I'd been quite happy winning the blinds.
Thanks for your views, once again, there's plenty of 'em!-NICE ONE
Posted Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:23 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
I don't think raising is a good idea either. Your lucky you only lost as much as you did, if you had raised preflop he probably would of stuck around with his pocket 5's and then you would of been in a world of hurt. Considering how he slowplayed it that far, it would of only been worse for you. If you bet the flop, he probably would of just flat called. Then when you improve on both the turn and river, its a hard fold.
I mean, you can't win EVERY hand you're in, and you can't lay down every hand you're behind. The way you played was fine, any other way you would of just lost more money. And if you fold 2 pair on the river there, thats just a very weak play. He just happened to have a set that time, theres really not much you can do about it.
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