Posted Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:51 pm GMT by mindgame
A friend recently asked me to sound the forum for opinions as to the best No Limit Hold'em text.
To those kind enough to weigh in on this:
Please state correct TITLE and AUTHOR of what you believe to be the BEST all-around work on the subject of No Limit,
Give your reason(s) for selecting IN 150 WORDS or LESS, and
Briefly explain how this particular book impacted your game, strategically, tactically, and financially.
edit:
I think it's only fair that whoever has the most well reasoned and intelligent answer to this query (which completely supports my own opinion the subject) will recieve from me personally a shiny new dime.
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:43 pm GMT by Dave B
They have books on poker?
Posted Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:45 pm GMT by Johny
Sorry, I'm too dumb to provide a satisfying answer.
Posted Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:34 pm GMT by shorn7
Well, I am not going to do the 150 words things, but I have 3 books which have structured my game around (as well as posting and reading on a bunch of forums too):
1. NL Chapter in Super System: Many will disagree on this one (since there are a bunch of anti-Doyle folks here), but this one got me started and provides some very important concepts.
2. Pot Limit and NL Poker by Ciaffone and Brier: Talks about all forms of poker in PL and NL terms; HE chapter is quite good.
3. NLHE: Theory and Practice by David Sklansky: Very new, but after two reads through it, I think this will become the defining text for deep staxk play. There is a lot of math involved in it, but even if you glom over it, the basic principles are very solid. One of the last chapters called "Concepts" is excellent as a cliff's notes verison of how to think when playing deep stack NL.
Hope this helps.
Posted Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:42 pm GMT by mindgame
Dave: I'm beginning to actually believe you've never read a book on poker.
Shorn: Have you seen the updated version of Brunson's book, or are you referring to the orginal?
Posted Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:49 pm GMT by Dave B
It is true. I havent read ANY book since high school.
Posted Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:57 pm GMT by shorn7
I am referring to the original. I haven't gotten SS2 since someone told me the NL section was pretty much the same. You agree or disagree? Worth me getting anyway?
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:42 am GMT by misterjokerboy
I've bought my first two poker books recently: Harrington on Hold em vol 1 and David Sklansky - The theory of poker.
I have't read the Sklansky one yet.
I've finished the Harrington one and I thought it was excellent. It goes through various topics making them really easy to understand and then gives little scenarios where you're given certain information and then you have to think what you would do. I used a piece of paper to cover the answers up. I'll need to re-read it, probably several times to let more stuff sink in. It's a little early to say at the moment how much it has helped my game, but I'm certain that it will help enormously in the future.
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:57 am GMT by mindgame
I haven't read Super System 2, either (I think that's the name of the sequel)--but I've read the original a few times. Never paid that much attention to the No Limit section since I rarely play NL. Brunson's affection for NL, and his disdain for limit poker (and players?), were so great that it annoyed me. Anymore it's getting tougher and tougher to find good limit games, at least in smaller poker rooms.
I'm hoping someone has read both and can let me know if it's worth buying the second for any NL info.
As far as Sklansky goes, he's so comprehensive that you sometimes have the feeling that no one needs to write another book. Then he turns around and publishes another.
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:38 am GMT by supafrey
Super system 2 is good for a refresher in other games.
The hold em parts are useless.
Correction: Any comments or advice by Brunson on hold em in general are useless.
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:43 am GMT by shorn7
As I said, there are some Doyle haters on here...
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:38 am GMT by mindgame
Of course that book was probably written before supra was even born--I first saw it offered in a newletter from the GBS in Vegas in about 1980. Back then it was offered in notebook form, typed--not typset: virtually mimeographed copies at about $100 each. Now that was a decent night of poker for me at the time, so there was no way I was going to drop it on one book when you buy could Morehead for $2.95 or the iconoclastic Frank Wallace for about a dollar more. Damn! I've always wanted to use that word.
What isn't understood is what Super System was at the time. Nothing like it existed. Here's the best hold'em player in the world and not only is he opening up about his game, he's picked top pros in every other arena and induced them to do the same. Why?
To get more people playing, that's why. Brunson doesn't write Super System and none of you guys, NONE OF YOU, is ever going to be playing hold'em 25 years later.
Criticize all you want. You stand on the shoulders of a giant.
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:42 am GMT by Dave B
Brunson is a hack.
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:57 am GMT by shorn7
A hack with 10 more WSOP bracelets than any of us. Some hack...
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:58 am GMT by supafrey
He only has 8 more bracelets than me.
Do your fact-checking, sir.
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:25 am GMT by UrAteUp
| supafrey wrote: | He only has 8 more bracelets than me.
Do your fact-checking, sir. |
WSOP VS THP bracelets...need we really compare the two?... 
As for SS2...I wouldn't recommend buying it and I am a big fan of Doyles. There are much better books on the market for No Limit Holdem.
Small Stakes Hold 'EM: Winning Big with Expert Play by Miller
Hold 'em Poker for Advanced Players: 21st Century Edition by Slansky (read Theory first before you delve into this one).
Internet Texas Hold'em: Winning Strategies from an Internet Pro
by Hilger...this is a simple yet good book with basics for starting internet players. I found it very informative yet simplistic. Not alot of numbers but it does speak of odds and playing odds.
Winning Low-Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones...designed for FL I still find this book works well for NL as well. Good read. Not too complex. Easy on the math but good mention of odds and probabilities.
Beat Texas Holdem by McEvoy...short, easy to read paperback filled with excellent advice on NLTH.
Shit I could probably name 15 more books I have read on poker of all types. Everything from NL Texas Holdem, 7 Stud, Omaha and so many other different variations of poker. These are some of the best. I urge your friend to stick mainly with the known poker authors such as Slansky. Though they are full of details and often require someone to read them through two or three times, they do give a great insite into odds and probabilities as well as many other areas such as "The Gap Concept" and other little goodies.
Reguardless which book he looks into, any will be better then none unless he is a natural player like Dave, with a flair for poker.
Still can't wait for Supa to write his book...I got a title for it Supa when your ready....  
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:46 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
I don't hate doyle, well i do, but I at least respect the fact that he was, and still is a great poker player. But his books are absolute garbage. All of them. His advice can be summed up as follow. Be aggressive. Don't bluff at a 910J suited board.
THANKS DOYLE!!! I AM NOW PRO PLAYA!
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:01 pm GMT by Dave B
Wow, Urateup-you have read all those books?
Do you feel that they improved your game?
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:04 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
| Dave B wrote: | Wow, Urateup-you have read all those books?
Do you feel that they improved your game? |
Thats harsh Dave...
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:22 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| Dave B wrote: | Wow, Urateup-you have read all those books?
Do you feel that they improved your game? |
Dave I feel everything I do improves my game. I like to study something in depth and learn to master it. I know I will never master poker but the fun is in trying...  .
I also like to read and why not read about something that interests you. Like you probably read the WSJ for fun I love reading various poker books and magazines for fun and educational purposes.
So why you picking on me big man? I even put you into my previous statements about being a natural poker player...didn't like that compliment? (at least I hope you took it as one...it was ment to be one)...
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:36 pm GMT by mindgame
You're quibbling. I think the first gentleman here with 8 WSOP hold'em bracelets can say anything he likes about Mr. Brunson. The rest of us would be prudent to reserve judgement until we can critique him as an equal.
What is more pathetic than little men throwing stones? I don't much care for Brunson either, but who cares what I think?
btw I didn't take Dave's remark about "all those books" as necessarily sacastic.  for the quality of Dave's play. please read "Chicago Reeling in Dave's wake":
http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/forum/t10534/chicago-reeling-in-daves-wake?highlight=#77951
...in case you missed this marvelous exchange. :D
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:41 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| mindgame wrote: |
What is more pathetic than little men throwing stones? |
Supa displaying his overly inflated ego?...
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:51 pm GMT by Dave B
Sure sure sure, if I was bored enough, i would pull up mindgame's posts about how he was slaughtered at my typical game at Canterbury.
It isnt always easy stepping into a house full of locals on your 1st trip is it????
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:27 pm GMT by mindgame
Indeed not.
As your subsequent debacle in Chicago demonstrated amply!
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:47 pm GMT by Aves
hey mindgame, do you still play at resorts? since graduating, i've had time to go there a couple times the past month or 2.
Posted Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:57 pm GMT by mindgame
Well it's just about the only game in town if you're a limit player. Trump has gone over almost completely to NL (hence the interest expressed in my circles on the subject).
I own a business that is very busy in Spring and Summer, though, so I only get there once or twice a month from April until mid-September. If you're in the room and you hear GMac paged (or see GMAC on the wait list)--that's me.
Dave has only been there a few times, if I'm not mistaken. He uses different aliases...Carp, Guppy, Bass...any fish will do.
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