Made NUT flush out of position |
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Posted Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:32 pm GMT by E-money04
I just didnt think he had the full i mean how can i possibly put him on a full house here? maybe a big bluff doubtful or maybe a smaller flush like king high ...what do you guys think about the over the top raise?
PokerStars Game #5797546401: Tournament #28910134, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/08/04 - 18:20:59 (ET)
Table '28910134 4' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: velos (12255 in chips)
Seat 2: DaMoN911 (18207 in chips)
Seat 3: mexem (14720 in chips)
Seat 4: PSUROCKETS (14085 in chips)
Seat 5: Doyte_D1 (12520 in chips)
Seat 6: NemoStars22 (25055 in chips)
Seat 7: JenniferUk (11365 in chips)
Seat 8: yvon2222 (6435 in chips)
Seat 9: Yoneken (15020 in chips)
Yoneken: posts small blind 75
velos: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Yoneken  
DaMoN911: folds
mexem: folds
PSUROCKETS: calls 150
Doyte_D1: folds
NemoStars22: folds
JenniferUk: calls 150
yvon2222: folds
Yoneken: raises 450 to 600
velos: folds
PSUROCKETS: calls 450
JenniferUk: folds
*** FLOP ***   
Yoneken: checks
PSUROCKETS: checks
*** TURN *** 
Yoneken: bets 450
PSUROCKETS: raises 750 to 1200
Yoneken: calls 750
*** RIVER *** 
Yoneken: checks
PSUROCKETS: bets 2500
Yoneken: raises 10720 to 13220 and is all-in
PSUROCKETS: calls 9785 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Yoneken: shows (a flush, Ace high)
PSUROCKETS: shows   (a full house, Fives full of Sixes)
Yoneken said, "nh"
PSUROCKETS collected 28470 from pot
DaMoN911 said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 28470 | Rake 0
Board
Seat 1: velos (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: DaMoN911 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: mexem folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: PSUROCKETS showed and won (28470) with a full house, Fives full of Sixes
Seat 5: Doyte_D1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: NemoStars22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: JenniferUk folded before Flop
Seat 8: yvon2222 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Yoneken (small blind) showed and lost with a flush, Ace high
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Posted Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:43 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
To tell you the truth, I'd be a little suspicious of that river card given the action on the turn. In a tournament, the chips might be destined to go in here, but in a cash game I might have just called--the same goes for a tournament where the stacks were a little deeper. Not an easy situation to be sure, because you'd hate to just call and have him show a lower flush when you might have stacked him.
One other question though...
If you reraised out of position, why did you not make a continuation bet. I'm surprised he didn't try to take it from you right there.
Posted Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:48 pm GMT by E-money04
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | To tell you the truth, I'd be a little suspicious of that river card given the action on the turn. In a tournament, the chips might be destined to go in here, but in a cash game I might have just called--the same goes for a tournament where the stacks were a little deeper. Not an easy situation to be sure, because you'd hate to just call and have him show a lower flush when you might have stacked him.
One other question though...
If you reraised out of position, why did you not make a continuation bet. I'm surprised he didn't try to take it from you right there. |
I've been pretty aggressive up to that point and i like to mix it up a lot...so i checked to potentially see a free card( because like you said... the play there is usually a bet), I felt had i made one of those quick continuation bets i would have been reraised by any 2 cards and didnt want that at that point in the hand. If im ahead im ahead and dont need to get bluffed out... when i hit a flop that weak and in such bad position i want that pot as small as possible.
Posted Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:18 pm GMT by TheSalche
I agree with diamond here, not using a continuation bet here is horrible. This is EXACTLY the type of flop where continuation bets work. It is an unconnected, unsuited board with one high card. AK and KQ are folding here if you bet this flop.
That would have saved you money, had you c-bet he would've folded or if he had continued with the hand, you'd know you were beaten.
Posted Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:03 am GMT by red_pen
I wanna start a fight.
I rarely C-bet J high flops if I miss. And if anyone c-bets me and the flop is jack high, specially one like this I call and tak it off them on the turn.
That OP didn't c-bet is not that big a deal.
Posted Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:16 pm GMT by TheSalche
| red_pen wrote: | I wanna start a fight.
I rarely C-bet J high flops if I miss. And if anyone c-bets me and the flop is jack high, specially one like this I call and tak it off them on the turn.
That OP didn't c-bet is not that big a deal. |
what kind of flops do you c-bet then sir?
Posted Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:36 pm GMT by Skribbles
| red_pen wrote: | I wanna start a fight.
I rarely C-bet J high flops if I miss. And if anyone c-bets me and the flop is jack high, specially one like this I call and tak it off them on the turn.
That OP didn't c-bet is not that big a deal. |
You got a fight then Mr.
A continuation bet gives you a CHANCE to win the pot. Calling in hopes of hitting one of your 6 outs (just two overs, no draws) is definitly a losing play.
Posted Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:53 pm GMT by Jauron
| red_pen wrote: | I wanna start a fight.
I rarely C-bet J high flops if I miss. And if anyone c-bets me and the flop is jack high, specially one like this I call and tak it off them on the turn.
That OP didn't c-bet is not that big a deal. |
Until the King comes, or do you go broke with second pair?
Smooth calling with the inention of betting the next street is a nice change of pace play, but I'd rather be the guy betting than the guy calling 90% of the time.
Posted Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:30 am GMT by red_pen
| Quote: | | what kind of flops do you c-bet then sir? |
Not J high flops. If I wiff I like to bet an A, K, or Q .. or a collection of dispersed "unders".
Don't get me wrong, I bet overpairs, and AJ in these situations, but I don't consider those sorts of bets C-bets.
A "J" is too often below the high card raising requirement for the C-bet to have enough credibility. (player numbers, raiser's position taken into account - but at a full table and with two limpers I wouldn't believe AJ is "that credible" a raising hand in the small blind ... if you disagree with this, you disagree with the premise of my argument in this circumstance). I've also got some probably unjustified notion that callers of raises hold "JT" more often than statistics should suggest.
The rest of my post above relates to how I sometime like to play a J high flop if I am not the original raiser, and (s)he fires what looks like a c-bet at me. I "float" (I believe the term is) and see what the turn brings. Usually, if the flop is j high, the turn is pretty scary for the raiser even if he has a hand. This is why I float.
This is also why I don't c-bet a "j" flop if I miss.
Posted Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:36 am GMT by UrAteUp
I like to always fire a bet out when I am on a drawing hand. With the given action before the flop I would say your better putting out a 1/2 pot sized bet after the flop. My reasons for this are two fold. One I want to make him think I made a good hand already and lead him to thinking that his waiting around in this pot is going to cost him. My other reason is to disguise my true hand.
Posted Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:03 pm GMT by E-money04
you have to be a pretty poor player to do the samething at all times... which is why i didnt bet the flop there.
Posted Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:24 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
I usually do the same thing until someone proves to me that they're on to it.
Why mess with success? Especially in a tournament when you're constantly being shuffled around, your betting tendencies are less likely to be picked up.
Posted Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:57 pm GMT by Loonbat
Yes - the continuation bet was needed ... and believe me, you AREN'T doing the same thing. Your lead bet (with a hand you hit) and a continuation bet can be in the same ballpark - always keep them guessing.
The only time I'm not throwing out a c-bet there is if I had several (more than 2) preflop callers. I may also pass again 2. NEVER against one.
And two limpers? I may be raising a range of hands here, including AJs, KJs, QJs, JTs, regardless of my poor position. With this flop and their lack of strength, I'd know my kicker was good. You could afford to do this with an M of about 70. Since no one took control of the hand, my point is you could do it with several holdings, including rags ... then postflop the real game begins.
And a J-high flop makes no difference. As, Ks, and Qs would raise preflop and then bet about 1/2 the pot on the flop, no?
Posted Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:30 am GMT by tame_deuces
| red_pen wrote: | | Quote: | | what kind of flops do you c-bet then sir? |
Not J high flops. If I wiff I like to bet an A, K, or Q .. or a collection of dispersed "unders".
Don't get me wrong, I bet overpairs, and AJ in these situations, but I don't consider those sorts of bets C-bets.
A "J" is too often below the high card raising requirement for the C-bet to have enough credibility. (player numbers, raiser's position taken into account - but at a full table and with two limpers I wouldn't believe AJ is "that credible" a raising hand in the small blind ... if you disagree with this, you disagree with the premise of my argument in this circumstance). I've also got some probably unjustified notion that callers of raises hold "JT" more often than statistics should suggest.
The rest of my post above relates to how I sometime like to play a J high flop if I am not the original raiser, and (s)he fires what looks like a c-bet at me. I "float" (I believe the term is) and see what the turn brings. Usually, if the flop is j high, the turn is pretty scary for the raiser even if he has a hand. This is why I float.
This is also why I don't c-bet a "j" flop if I miss. |
There is a flaw here.
You say you will usually float flops which likely missed a raiser, because you know it has likely missed...all good.
But this isn't a good reason for not doing a c-bet yourself because your _opponent_ might not be blessed with that knowledge, and he might fold where you would call.
Don't attribute your opponents with your own knowledge/style, its one of the great poker sins.
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