Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:02 am GMT by Oasis
Okay, so I have been having my ups and downs lately, just like anyone else. But instead of just moaning when I’m down, and think I’m invincible when I’m up - I want to change my attitude.
I've been playing online for around 2 months but have been literally living and breathing poker every day since I started playing with real cash. I initially deposited $50 on PokerStars. Since that time I have had some fantastic wins, but also an equal amount of bad losses, and over all, my BR generally stands around the $45 mark. For example, I became very interested in tournaments and had a massive ITM streak for about 10 games which subsequently skyrocketed my bankroll. However, a few consecutive losses dampened my bankroll, and my spirit. It's like a chain reaction for me - probably tilt; but whatever it is, the worse I play... the worse I seem to play - if that makes sense. For example, I’ll lose an SnG, and I’ll be a little upset, then, when I play another one I find that there is more pressure on me to win so as to make up for the SnG loss before; and then when I lose this one I really get in the dumps. Multiply this by 4 or 5 games and I’m really stressed out. Then the process repeats itself… I finally dig my way back out of my grave and break-even just in time for it to happen all over again. Just like today; I had a fair few SnG losses then went and played some cash games and won $15 in a short session. However I have just lost a stack, so back to where I started.
I want this to change. I know it won't happen over night - hell, I don't expect it to happen over the next year. I want to work hard for this; I want to become a winning player. I don't want to sign up next week for a WPT and take out first prize – that would be a pipedream and it is not my goal; I just would like to see a positive slope in my BR earnings - no matter how slight it may be. It’s so frustrating because my flat mate, for example, will see me win a SnG, and then some days later he will ask me how my BR is going. I’m ashamed to be always telling him that I’m neither here nor there.
As I have said, for the last few months I have been thinking about nothing other then poker. I've purchased and tracked down almost every book recommended on these boards (cheers diamond), I read these books… and then decided to read them again, this time taking notes that I refer to later; I think about hands after I play them and when I’m on the computer I spend all of this time playing, reading articles and threads, etc.
I don't know if any of you will really understand what I’m trying to get at here. Please don’t mistake me for some punk who looks at the pros on TV and expects to have their wealth of knowledge implanted in my brain when I wake up tomorrow. I know it’s going to take a lot of hard work but I’m unsure of the path I need to take, all I know is that I want to travel it.
So, for all of you seasoned poker players... Your wish is my command. There has to be something more that I can do; something to break this up and down yo-yo pattern I have become accustomed to.
You’re experiences/advice will be greatly appreciated. Take care all.
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Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:29 am GMT by TxShadow
Bankroll management is absolutely key. This is something that it took me a while to learn, but when I did, I was amazed at the results.
You have a $50 BR, what stakes are you playing?
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:36 am GMT by Oasis
I play 0.05/0.10cent NL.
I also play $3.30 STT SnG's which I have been going well at but recently stepped up to $5.50 SnG's. Havn't cashed as well at this level so plan to go back down to the $3.30's. However, for the minute i'm focusing on my cash games.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:36 pm GMT by TxShadow
This may not seem feasible to you, but 5 buy-ins isn't close to enough for NL. You need at least 15. When you are limited to only 5 buy-ins, losses (and wins) will have a huge emotional impact on you and your play. You also won't be able to play correctly. If you lose a hand for half of a buy-in, you won't have a lot of room to rebuy to maximize your profits when you win a big hand.
I know it can be frustrating when you don't have a lot of money to dump into a poker site to get started (I had the exact same problem). The stakes just don't get low enough on most sites to play on a $50 BR.
A few things you could try would be:
1. Wait until you can make another $50 deposit. You would still only have 10 buy-ins, but this would make you much more comfortable than 5.
2. Find a site with a bonus of some sort to save yourself some money. Pacific (not endorsing here) actually has a good one because they give you the bonus money immediately. You can't cash it out, but you can play with it, thus increasing your BR starting out.
3. Maybe find a site that offers a $5 buy-in NL instead of $10 so you can more successfully build your roll.
You really have to understand how important bankroll management is. If you are eating, sleeping, and breathing poker like you say you are, then all of the practice and studying will increase your skill in due time. But if you never learn to play within your means, you aren't going to have any success.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:38 pm GMT by TxShadow
Oh, and I don't play a whole lot of SnGs (I'm sure someone here can tell you the BR requirements for those), but 10 to 15 buy-ins probably isn't enough for those either.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:15 pm GMT by Oasis
Okay, I just grinded up a $20 stack. So, taking your advice (I've heard numerous others emphasise the importance on BR management too, but I think i've pushed it away and just thought about the big $$$), i've decided to leave my 10NL game whilst on my upswing (back to $45) and go down to the 5NL. It's a little tedious at this level but I'll have to become discipline. It's crunch time now. ^_^
I'll steer clear of my SnG's for a bit now and work on the 5NL games for a few weeks.
More comments are welcome.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:22 pm GMT by khaosanroad
Have you thought about using Poker Tracker or Poker Office?
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:09 pm GMT by UrAteUp
As OP said themselves, everyone goes on hot and cold streaks. The problem is when we are on a cold streak we often site bad luck or stupid players when in fact it is our own doing. As I have said a million times, for novice players especially, check those hand histories and make sure your playing top hands in the right positions. This is often the biggest leak a new player has.
As for Bank Roll Managment, you should probably have at least 20xbuyin for SNG play. Some people require more but it really depends on how many you plan on playing. The best way to play SNGs and build a bankroll from it is the step method. There should be a post or two about it in the forum.
Good luck and stop the madness. Enjoy the game.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:19 pm GMT by mooseontheloose
I think your bigger problem was probably BR management as someone noted. Because $5 represented such a big chunk you put even more pressure on yourself when you would lose. Same in those cash games. In poker you need to be able to lose and still feel comfortable risking another buy-in from your BR, otherwise you play scared, etc. and make bad moves.
I think if you play within your means and work at your game as hard as you have been you'll see results. Think about it like this. You BR will move up somewhat slowly playing $5 NL and $1+0.20 SnGs/MTTs but you get to see a lot of poker in that time. Once you finally hit say $120 you'll have the BR to do $5 SnGs and $10 NL, at which time you'll likely be a much better player because you were forced to focus on your game and increase your bankroll through the lowest stakes possible.
BTW, if you like tourney play, I'm enjoying the 45-person $1+0.20 SnGs on PokerStars. A regular SnG is like playing a final table but these ones are more like mini MTTs, you need to make a lot of the same moves earlier and later as you would in a large MTT. It's good practice and if you make the money, especially 1st-3rd you get a nice payout (1st is a $13 profit). The competition here isn't great so if you put effort in you'll likely do well, and since it's quite cheap compared to your BR you don't need to worry if you lose a few 
Just my $0.02
Posted Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:39 am GMT by supafrey
I think you're missing the op's point. He's frustrated that he's remaining stagnant. This is something the vast majority of poker players are going through - the ups and downs that leave you sitting at even. Gains are slow, if that, and you just don't know how to "take it to the next level" and actually steadily grow your roll.
That's his question.
To start, I'm going to suggest that you need to learn not to care about what your friend thinks. Here's an article I wrote on the subject a whiiiiile back. ...
actually no. never mind. good luck.
Posted Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:57 am GMT by MrDarling
I do agree that bad BR management leads to worse play.
I also only deposited $50 (twice now) and since my site offers 10NL as the lowest game I find it hard to play and make money in ring games.
problem is, as soon as the buyin to a game is too big to your BR you start to worry about it and play worse. Either too afraid to put your money with the best hand , or tilting and thinking everybody is out to steal you small blinds and you push with no hands.
This is way I got into playing $1 S&G. if I lose 10 in a row, it still only 1 buyin of the ring games.
I try to play the 45 players one, as the ROI is much bigger if you get ITM , and I don't find it harder to get ITM in the bigger S&G.
As for tilting, or getting losing streaks. It happened to me last night (see a couple of posts about it) so I played a little stud and omaha and manage to regain all my loses. First, its fun to play these different games. And seconds, and those low level if you play limit games, your chances of losing your all buyin is smaller.
btw - the reason I decided to deposit only $50 ,is that even though I share the same pipedream most of us do, I do not want to throw money away chasing it before I see prove I can actually do it. On my first deposit I didn't realize it was not enough. My second deposit, was just to try and gain the rest of the sign up bonus (100% on fulltilt) and now through better management I manage to keep it at even and even slightly build it up...
Don't forget, most players here claim to have invested $1000's before starting to make money in poker.
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