Playing FL $2-2-2-2 Betting Structure |
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Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:22 pm GMT by lwestatbus
Here's a theory question for all of you with a mathematical turn of mind or even those that failed math but aren't short of opinions. The question is in two parts.
Background: The closest live poker play to me (and the only play without it being either an unreasonably long day trip or overnight) is FL Hold-'em 9-player with a $2-2-2-2 betting format. I think that they do this because Florida caps betting at $2 per bet and they are trying to build up the pots for the rake. The rake is a straight proportion of the pot (not sure exactly what it is) that caps at $5 per hand. If I had to guess I'd say that the rake was 5%. Other than the unusual betting structure the game is traditional with a three raise limit per betting round.
Part 1: What adjustments in your game from ordinary FL (say $1-2 or $2-4) would you make with a higher betting price in the first two rounds and no increase in the bets in the second two rounds?
Part 2: Here's some additional information. The play is relatively loose preflop with an average of five players per hand seeing the flop. About 1/3 of hands are raised preflop. The typical pot is $25-$30 but $50-60 pots are not rare and $80-120 pots show up. I'd say that there are typically 3 players seeing the showdown with 4 players at showdown being more common than 2. I rate the general level of play as being pretty weak with some exceptions but I also haven't played there enough to make an accurate generalization. So, how does this characterization adjust your answer to Part 1?
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Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:09 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Biggest difference I can see immediately is the use of the flop raise to buy a free turn card. It's fairly useless now. All flop raises should be for value or fold equity, and if the game is as loose as you say, your fold equity is approximately 0%.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:36 pm GMT by supafrey
Yeah I'm pretty sure you just play as untricky as you possibly can.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:07 pm GMT by MasterShake
We have a similar game up here. Actually I think it's identical. :D
I have so far
Broke even
Up ~$100
down $40
Up ~$100
down $40
The best thing I can tell you is raise all of your premium hands, call excellent drawing hands in late position and hope for good cards.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:41 pm GMT by Aves
Drawing hands go up in value as you won't have to pay double price on the later streets.
Accordingly, you should adjust your range of hands to showdown at the river since more people will be drawing and taking it to all the way to the river.
Also, you have to take into account your implied odds are lower than usual.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:45 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Aves wrote: | | Also, you have to take into account your implied odds are lower than usual. |
It's been my experience that implied odds have a very small role in limit poker. You generally already have the pot odds to call, or you're not even close. Rarely do implied odds tip the scale.
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:50 pm GMT by supafrey
really?
damn that could explain me bleeding with the 22-77 range =(
Posted Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:05 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| supafrey wrote: | really?
damn that could explain me bleeding with the 22-77 range =( |
I really have nothing to back this up except that I can't recall more than a few times where how much money I could make on a subsequent street had to factor into my thinking.
Posted Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:18 pm GMT by MasterShake
Here's a typical session. Last night I went and played at that game. Down $40. Then another $20. Then a friend lent me $20. Then I leave paying my friend back his $20, plus evened off, PLUS up another $80 on top of that . :D
Posted Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:41 pm GMT by snoogins47
It would seem to be that drawing hands go down in value, if the bet stays the same size, what with the lower implied odds. I would have to guess that generally this is a bit more of a game of 'made hands' than standard FL for that reason: you're going to lose half as much on later streets if somebody catches up.
However, loose fullhanded FL is really, really friendly to drawing hands anyway.
Anyway I don't think the game is really going to be changed all that drastically from $2/$4. Peel less liberally on the flop (with hands that don't have any showdown value), and don't fear the turn/river raises as much. Probably want to throw a lot of the 'wait until the turn to raise' lines out the window too.
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:36 am GMT by lwestatbus
After having stayed away from this local 2-2-2-2 venue for several months I gave it a try this week. I can honestly claim that my understanding of the game has improved a LOT since the last time I'd played there so this session was revealing.
First, the play was incredibly loose and that aspect dominated any changes that the equal betting limits on each round might have had. The 'increased' preflop and flop betting limit put more money in the pot early. Over half the players were playing slot machine poker, just putting in their money and seeing what happened. You could pick out the good players quickly but here's the dominating fact: There was so much money in the pot that any cards described as "these play well in a multiway pot" became good starting cards and catching any part of the flop or any draw on the flop made seeing the turn and often the river correct. The bad players were staying in because they were bad and the good players would stay in because it was correct to do so. Unbelievable.
Unfortunately I got my ass handed to me but that was a two-hour stretch of just flat horrible cards. I was folding 95% of my starting cards and just was having none of my draws come in. I flopped OESD with a flush draw twice with what turned out to be $65 pots but they didn't come through (one won by 2pr and one by trips). Oh, well. Again, I don't fault my play but I was unlucky. A couple of good players told me that Saturday night was the time to be there as the wackos just bled their money away.
Thanks for the responses. Sean was definitely on target as was Snoogins.
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