What would you rather goes heads up against pocket 8's with. |
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Posted Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:14 pm GMT by K-rug
My friend posed an interesting question:
Let's say you check and everyone folds except one person. This person has pocket 8's and pre-flop goes all in. What would you rather go head to head against pre-flop pocket 8's with? Your options are suite 10-J or suite A-K.
My opinion was the 10-J because their are more out than the A-K. You have more chances for a straight and any pair whether it be 10's through A's all beat pocket 8's. So since it is just you and him they hold the same value.
What statistically are the odds of 10-J suited being better than A-K suited?
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Posted Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:19 pm GMT by ballbp
I'd like to see the responses but why wouldn't you want A K suited? Of course you're an underdog preflop but only needing one of your six outs you've got the advantage right? I understand the are more options for the straight with 10 J but one A or one K and you're up over pocket 8's. I'd take A K suited over almost ANY hand preflop.
Edit:I just re-read your post and I see that even a 10 or a J also beats the 8's. I just would feel better calling with A K over 10 J.
Posted Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:44 pm GMT by Sh1rp
Pocket 8s also takes away from two of the 8s left in the deck that you would need to make 3 of the straights you could possibly catch.
Posted Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:26 pm GMT by K-rug
Yeah BallP that was what I had to ponder about for a bit two. It would feel better with A-K. But pre-flop, head to head with one guy who has pocket 8's? Like Sh1rp said, two of the 8's are gone but I have to believe the 10-J suited still gives you greater odds over A-K suited. I just don't know what they are.
Posted Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:01 pm GMT by thepheonix
HERE IS THE ANSWER:
I used an analyzer to get these odds:
AKs vs. 88 (where one 8 is same suit)
47.3% to 52.7%
AKs vs. 88 (where AKs is of a completly different suit than 8's)
47.6% to 52.4%
JTs vs. 88 (where one 8 is same suit)
49.6% to 50.4%
JTs vs. 88 (where JTs is different suit than either 8 )
49.8% to 50.2%
So..... the obvious answer is JTs is better because the extra straights give it the odds. Either way... I would hope to be holding the 8's. Amazing, huh?
Interesting note:
JTs vs. AKs (different suits)
38.9% to 61.1 %
JTs vs. AKs (same suit)
35.8% to 64.2%
So... JTs is inferior vs. AKs. Yet JTs is better against any underpair.
Posted Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:17 am GMT by UnluckyKyle
JT is better by maybe 1.x percent... which isnt all that much, especially when figuring in proabilty error on your analyzer program.
if someone goes all in pre-flop... i'm definately going to take a long look at what i have in the hole. AK is a definate call, TJ isn't in my book (depending on the person all-in of course). Other things such as the size of my stack also comes into play.
Anyway, for me to call an all-in bet pre-flop i've got to have a solid drawing or made hand.
Posted Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:53 am GMT by thepheonix
Well now that you know this fact on probablity, if you put your opponenet on 88's or lower, then think of JTs as a very strong hand. It is even better against than AKs if they have an underpair. So.... making a definite call of an all in with AKs but not making it with JTs if you know they have an underpair is a mistake because JTs will win more. The fact that AKs is higher does not matter because relative to underpairs JTs is higher. All that matters is that you are higher. And the straight will hit more so the odds are better with JTs. If you put your opponenet on an underpair 8 or lower, JTs is the best hand to call with besides overpairs. The End.
Posted Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:43 am GMT by K-rug
Thanks guys. Yeah, a lot of people jumped on the AK right away because it was well Ace and King.
Posted Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:08 pm GMT by snoogins47
I think the reasoning that AK would be a much quicker call than J10 is just that: You have to be confident that your opponent has an UNDERPAIR.
While JT might have the edge to an under... with AK, barring KK or AA, you're never looking too huge of a dog.
Hence, I think AK, in practice, has more value in calling an all-in, in real life applications.
Posted Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:18 pm GMT by MelJudah
What about pocket nines? The nine I believe would sufficently decrease the JTs straight possibilities as pocket 8s did slightly. I mean if you held JTs you would rather be up against 88, not 99 right? If your J or T hits one the flop the nines begin to mold it's straight possibilites..... can you check the analyzer on that one?
Posted Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:48 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
99 would by far be the preferrable hand. while any 2 overcards are gonna be superior should they improve, 99 is already a made hand so is in the lead preflop, in fact 99 would be far and away in the lead against 88 (maybe 1 of our statistical whizz kids can give you figures, i just know it's good  )
Also, what kinda idiot is gonna call a preflop all in with TJ ?
(obviously i mean idiot in the most inoffensive way possible 8))
Posted Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:46 am GMT by UMCorian
Truth be told, I wouldn't want to call an all-in with AKs unless the player going in was shortstacked. Just the way it works out, if they have any underpair, you are at a slight disadvantage. And even if he's going on a stone cold bluff with 72o, you really are only a 3/2 favorite to win.
Big Slick's a great hand to raise with before the flop, chase some folks out... but looses its value real quick if you don't hit. It might be worth firing a bullet to try and steal the pot, but if you get raised, you probably should lay it down.
Posted Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:49 am GMT by vegasholdem
I would easily call with a JTsuited vs 88 all in heads up.
Itz easier to make a straight holding a JT vs. AK anyday!!!
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