Posted Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:31 pm GMT by bluffthenuts
I was in a cash game recently where I was in a hand with one other player and I raised him all in after the turn. As he contemplated the call he flipped over one of his hole cards to reveal a pair. I asked if this was a fold and he said no. The rest of the table informed me that he did this to gauge a reaction. As I started to ask whether that was legal, he called. I missed my draw on the river and he won the hand. My question is, WAS HIS MOVE LEGAL? Can you reveal your hole cards while deciding an all-in call or fold? I have looked all over the internet and searched some rule sites and all I can see is that it would not kill his hand but he COULD be penalized. What do you think?
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Posted Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:41 pm GMT by mortaleclipse
Was this at the casino? I know at our casino you cant do that but I know of alot of casinos that let you do that. I think it is whatever the floor boss says it what goes. I personally find it a good tatic to see what kind of reaction you can get. Just ask the floor boss if it is a legal move or not.
Posted Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:16 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
This is purely a house rule, but personally I don't think it should ever be legal, and exposed cards should be dead.
Posted Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:27 pm GMT by Jauron
Give him the ol' fork in the eye.
You guys need to decide what your home game allows. Personally I lobbied hard to get rid of that in our home games. With our group it was just a matter of time before someone showed while another player was left to act.
Posted Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:15 am GMT by metal1
the only time i've ever seen card exposing legal was in the Head Up Poker Championship. other than that the hand is usually mucked
Posted Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:10 am GMT by Gunslinger
I read a story from this year's WSOP ME where the writer put another player all-in. The other player asked the dealer if he could show his cards before making his decision. The dealer told the other player his cards would be live, he could win the pot if he had the best hand, but he would be given a 10 minute penalty (obviously if he lost he would be out).
I agree, though, it should never be legal.
Posted Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:27 am GMT by Dave B
The "general" rule is that it is illegal for tournaments but legal for cash games.
The reason is that the outcome of that hand can directly influence other players (you knock him out, they improve).
In a cash game, who wins a hand does not carry the same relavence to others.
However, as always, house rules trump general practices as long as they are in place and consistent.
Posted Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:17 pm GMT by mindgame
Generally in casinos this is legal if you are contemplating a call and you are heads up. It's a dead hand if there's a live player behind you.
I've suggested elsewhere the safest, simplest way to play a raise or a large bet is to make it and then stare down at the pot. DO NOT lift your eyes until you opponent(s) act. In this way you can give nothing away and you are not susceptible to this ploy. He can't show you anything if you aren't looking at him.
Posted Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:39 pm GMT by groton
or just make your action and look at the plazma tv expecaly if your favorate team is playing.
Good way to hide a super hand expecaly if there winning 
Posted Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:27 pm GMT by mindgame
Actually, that "look up and stare off" ploy is described in Mike Caro's Book of Tells as the #1 give-away of a great hand.
That's precisely why I advocate what I do on the large bet or raise--you make this play exactly the same way whether you want the call or not.
Posted Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:12 am GMT by groton
| mindgame wrote: | Actually, that "look up and stare off" ploy is described in Mike Caro's Book of Tells as the #1 give-away of a great hand.
That's precisely why I advocate what I do on the large bet or raise--you make this play exactly the same way whether you want the call or not. |
yes but I counter that since i do it every Hand
Posted Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:52 pm GMT by mindgame
...which will work equally well.
The important thing is to be consistent--simple, stylized movements done the same way every time: that's the only way to be unreadable. The hardest people to play are the ones you can't put on a hand, and that will make it difficult to put you on a hand.
The other key thing is to then "randomize" your behavoir. In other words, you might want to always pre-flop raise your AK: but you shouldn't ALWAYS do anything. So you introduce a random variable that dicatates call (instead of the raise) 25% of the time: randomly select a suit (let's say it will be the suit of the turn card in your first hand) and when the K of your AK is that suit you just smooth call. Too many smooth calls? Then only do it when the Ace is red--then you are down to 12 1/2%. You can select card combinations to randomize your play any way you wish.
If I pre-flop raise I usually want to bet out after the flop even if I miss the flop--but not ALWAYS, only 2/3's of the time. So if the flop is a miss I will bet out unless the last card in the flop is a club or a heart 6 or lower.
Or say you are on a nut flush draw in early position. You typically will only bet if you hit your flush. But I'd like to bluff about 5-8% of the time, even if I miss, if I'm up against a player whom I know will fold if he thinks I've made a hand on the river. Anyway, say I need a club. If it's heads up, there are 44 cards in the deck and 9 are clubs--it doesn't matter if some clubs have folded unless I saw them. There are 35 cards that miss this hand. I don't see a 7 anywhere so I know that 3 of the 35 cards are 7's (one's a club remember). If I miss my flush and my opponent checks I'll check unless a 7 rivers, then I bluff. I will then be bluffing 8.5% of the time (3/35)--if that's too much, you can just do it on a red 7. Yes, he could have been on a checkraise with his pair of sevens--then I fold when he raises, you have to do that anyway when you're caught bluffing.
edit: While Sklansky and others discuss "randomizing" play--in Sklansky's case even suggesting percentages on such things as how often to smooth-call preflop with AK suited--I believe I am the first writer that explained to the average player exactly how to do this. 
Posted Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:29 pm GMT by Gunslinger
| mindgame wrote: | | While Sklansky and others discuss "randomizing" play--in Sklansky's case even suggesting percentages on such things as how often to smooth-call preflop with AK suited--I believe I am the first writer that explained to the average player exactly how to do this. ] |
Well, Harrington did say to just use the second hand on your watch as a great randomizer... 
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