The min raise (In NL games) |
|
Posted Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:51 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
Nope, sorry, I still don't get it.
Why the hell do people min raise? In particular preflop.
I see this all the time...
7 callers, back round to the bb and he min raises. Why??? You can guarantee that everyone who limped in the first place is going to throw another bet out there. It's not scaring anyone!!! And there's always a chance someone who limped originally has a big hand and will re-raise.
Even If you're late in a tourney and the blinds are big, If I'm in the big blind and you min raise me from middle position for example, yes ok it may get rid of everyone else, but I'm going to call from my big blind virtually every frickin time!
And hey... you know what? If my 2  3  cracks your Aces on the flop... I'm gonna just laugh in your face!
The ONLY time i will even consider a min raise is if I'm sure you're daft enough to fold thinking I've got a monster!
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:12 pm GMT by mooseontheloose
lol yeh, and what makes it funnier and most times people don't raise for value. Example, I've seen many people do this with suited connectors all the way up to AKs and say "If I hit, I get paid a big pot" - okay, weird logic but makes sense.
But the other times people will flip over AA or something and you're like WTF - you expect people to fold rather than call 20 more into a pot of 200? Right.
Posted Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:46 pm GMT by MasterShake
Obviously it's not why everyone is doing it, but if two guys are colluding and one of them has AA or KK, he could tell his buddy in later position. Then he limps, everyone else calls, he bumps it up small so he doesn't have to lose much, there's a bunch more callers and the guy with the monster can push and pick up twice the cash/chips. Then the original raisor can fold. If you see the original raisor fold every time and the same guy push in each situation, it might not be a bad idea to mention it to the site.
Posted Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:09 am GMT by Jauron
I see it too often from what I assume are big hands, mini raise and then move in or make a huge move on the flop.
I imagine they are thinking I'm going broke with this hand no matter what, might as well get some money in the pot.
I agree it's stupid.
My favorite however is the guy who will mini raise late, fold to me in the BB where I'm getting too good a price to fold most hands. I flop something and drag the pot and the guy has the nerver to say "you called my raise with that?"
What raise?
Posted Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:23 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Pre-flop, there is almost never a good reason to do it, but I can think of two situations I'd at least consider it.
1. Early in the tournament with a marginal hand like a mid-pair like 7's, 8's, or 9's it's feasible to min-raise as a blocking bet. Someone who might have otherwise raised may just call, not wanting to walk into a trap. This gets a little more money in the pot but let's you take a flop fairly cheaply to see if you can get a set. Even so, I'm not usually a fan of this move.
2. Later in the tournament, if you can get away with stealing by raising minimum, you can do it. Say you have an opponent who will only reraise against your opening raise, but never just call. Now it becomes correct to min-raise on your "steal" hands because it gives you a good chance to win the pot and minimizes your loss when your opponent does pick up a hand. Still, not a big fan of this move either, as most opponents are not that ideal, and min-raising (especially when antes are involved) usually gives your opponent too high of implied odds against your better hands.
Other than that, the ONLY time I min-raise is on later streets as part of a ploy to make an opponent put in all his chips on a later street. Usually I do it on the turn with a hand like a set on a board without many draws. Say an opponent has 2000 left, and there's 1000 in the pot. If he bets 500, I might min-raise him here and then bet 1000 on the river; against bad opponents, this move often results in them gradually getting themselves stacked before they have a chance to make a good laydown. They find themselves too compelled by the tremendous pot odds they receive and end up going broke with a hand like top pair.
Posted Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:54 am GMT by MrDarling
It seems like in the lower levels people min raise a lot.
Some do it with any raising hand, some do it with marginal hands, some even try to steal with a min raise.
I really don't know why. But I look at the min raise as a normal raise.
Sure I will call a min raise with most hand I usually limp in with, but I wont with rags cards.
As for min raise post flop - again, in the lowest levels some use it as an attempt to block bet, and some use it as a pot builder. Though its funny to see someone betting 10 into a 1000 pot, you can never really conclude from that what hand they have.
I never min raise - preflop , when the overall M is low , and the tables overall raise is a min raise preflop , I'll always go at least 1.5XBB.
The one time I accidently min raise post flop , was on the turn , when I had a monster. I meant to write a big amount but wrong clicked the raise button. Luckily Villain took it as a sign on weakness reraised and I managed to push him allin and clean him up!
Posted Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:19 am GMT by tame_deuces
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: |
Other than that, the ONLY time I min-raise is on later streets as part of a ploy to make an opponent put in all his chips on a later street. |
Yeah, this is gold. 'Reverse' pot control is a beautiful thing.
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: |
2. Later in the tournament, if you can get away with stealing by raising minimum, you can do it.
|
I'd go as far as saying you should do it, if you get the blinds by minraising that is an incredibly profitable situation to be in.
Apart from that I don't understand why people automatically hate min-raising, it has its uses. Just like a calling station calls in the wrong places, so will a player with no understanding of laying down odds bet or raise the min in the wrong places. A decent player will know when it might be correct to do either./u
Posted Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:21 am GMT by mooseontheloose
As mentioned, the classic is "how can you call my raise with that?!"
If I've already called the BB and am pretty sure this won't be raised again, why in the world would I fold any hand I'd originally call with? Excluding pot odds, it just makes no sense. The best if when you've got say 87s from LP, button min-raises, comes back to you and you call. Flop comes 569 rainbow and he goes All-in w/ his AA and you clean him out.
"How can you call my raise with 87s donk!?!" hahaha
Posted Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:31 am GMT by kingetje
Thats something i notice in some friends' games in home games. i got a nice drawing hand, i know that if i bet and get raised all i will have to call is twice the amount im going to bet...
they try to protect their hand but dont know its not going to, youre only pricing people in
Posted Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:44 am GMT by aaronw
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet. I think the min-raise is very usefule in a couple situations. In addition to the above, I think its useful in these situations:
1) when you have a really good hand against a maniac. Say you have the nuts or near nuts and he keeps betting into you. If you min raise here, he is going to call, therefore, you are creating a big pot with a great hand. I think it is very useful in this situation; and
2) Against a semi-clueless player that has a good hand, but not a great hand and you again, have the nuts or near nuts. If you raise their bet big, you will likely scare them off. However, if you min raise they will be forced to call, therefore creating a big pot with a big hand.
I think they are very useful in these 2 situations as they create big pots against an unsuspection opponent. What you guys think?
Posted Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:52 pm GMT by UrAteUp
A wise and ancient man once said...everytimeyou min. raise a kitten dies...  ...maybe the purpose of the min raise is to keep the cat population under control?...  .
|
|
