Posted Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:22 pm GMT by Jauron
Thought I'd bring an AK step by step up. You may not agree but I felt this hand was very interesting as decisions that normally don't come up needed to be made on nearly every street.
First step-Preflop
***** Hand History for Game 4990205342 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:27631058 Level:2 Blinds(30/60) - Sunday, August 20, 17:27:35 ET 2006
Table Table 112850 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 6: Jauron ( 1925 )
Seat 2: dirt_mcgirt9 ( 2180 )
Seat 9: cajun_cookin ( 5925 )
Seat 3: Uinhr ( 2211 )
Seat 10: VICTORIAFEC ( 1960 )
Seat 7: time_is_now ( 2340 )
Seat 8: PartMoos ( 1699 )
Seat 4: Thro84 ( 1760 )
Trny:27631058 Level:2
Blinds(30/60)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Jauron  
time_is_now folds.
PartMoos folds.
cajun_cookin folds.
VICTORIAFEC raises 170.
dirt_mcgirt9 folds.
Uinhr folds.
Thro84 folds.
Jauron ???
This may not seem very interesting yet, but this decision starts it all.
Villian raises too often and usually will continue to bet on the flop 3/4 to the pot. Player plays a lot like I do, making strong moves, however player raises too much and will not fold to a reraise once she brings it in for one.
2 Options as I see it-
Raise-
Pro's- win a small pot outright if I can find the right price.
Con's- Player is likely to call most raises, and being out of position to an aggresive player I will be forced to bet the flop regardless. I am probably looking at exposing nearly 1000 chips "in the dark", ~500 preflop and at least another 500 post flop regardless of it it helped me. I am more likely to go broke on this hand if I catch something.
Call-
Pro- Hide my hand, keep the pot fairly small and easy to get away from it on the flop. Since I just called I do not need to bet on the flop if I don't want to and I can slow play if I hit the flop hard. It is already down to heads up so the need to raise is minimized.
Con- I do not take control of the pot, therefore I must be more willing to lay down this hand to extreme aggression even if I hit the flop since I do not know where I am.
PREFLOP- Against THIS villain, your move...
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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:36 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Nevertheless, I'd reraise to 400 or 450.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:48 am GMT by UrAteUp
Raise to 250. 450 is a little much with blinds only being 30/60.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:59 am GMT by fiezk
| UrAteUp wrote: | | Raise to 250. 450 is a little much with blinds only being 30/60. |
don't min-raise
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:15 am GMT by shorn7
I would disagree with the others here and just call. You have position on villain and do you really want to commit yourself here this early in the tourny? I don't think so. The question to ask is if you raise and he comes over the top, do you want to call? I don't...with that answer, I don't think raising is the best play.
Also, as you point out, villain will call most raises so there is no fold equity in your play. Basically you will be creating a big pot preflop with a drawing hand that will potentially force you to commit on the flop. I understand that with position you can check behind if you miss on the flop, but again that will just encourage him to bluff you out on the turn no matter what comes.
Based on your chip stack, the early point in the tourny, your position, and the tendencies of villain, I think calling is the optimal play.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:08 am GMT by Jauron
Just to clear this up, I am out of position, I am in the BB.
I will post the next street in a couple of hours.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:14 am GMT by shorn7
That was unclear since it didn't show who were the blinds and you didn't say you had acted before him. Did you just limp?
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:23 pm GMT by Iron Butt
I um, go all in a lot here LOL. I find I get lots more bad calls than good and nothing keeps people off your bozack like an early OTT all in. But that's just me, I don't say it's the "right" play. Any other "maniacs"? 
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:55 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| Iron Butt wrote: | | I um, go all in a lot here LOL. I find I get lots more bad calls than good and nothing keeps people off your bozack like an early OTT all in. But that's just me, I don't say it's the "right" play. Any other "maniacs"? |
I go all-in too. It's hard to see it in tourneys but you only have 32bbs. That's not much. Just move it in. I'd go in with a lot of stuff here if he's been raising often. Raising to ~400 is pretty bad, IMO. If you make a continuation bet you'll nearly be all-in.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:06 pm GMT by Skribbles
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | Iron Butt wrote: | | I um, go all in a lot here LOL. I find I get lots more bad calls than good and nothing keeps people off your bozack like an early OTT all in. But that's just me, I don't say it's the "right" play. Any other "maniacs"? |
I go all-in too. It's hard to see it in tourneys but you only have 32bbs. That's not much. Just move it in. I'd go in with a lot of stuff here if he's been raising often. Raising to ~400 is pretty bad, IMO. If you make a continuation bet you'll nearly be all-in. |
All-in or call.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:30 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| shorn7 wrote: | | That was unclear since it didn't show who were the blinds and you didn't say you had acted before him. Did you just limp? |
shorn dude...he is the BB...  .
The raise I spoke of was just a little over min raise. I didn't even think about that beinbg a min raise, but you know they say fear the min raise... . Best to go a little over too so you don't kill a kitty.... .
I can see Suited's reasoning behind his descsion. I think that is probably the best route to go. Put the descsion back on the other player and let him decide if he wants to make the call and risk it all or not. Chances are the only hands calling here will be AA or KK. Anything else would almost be suicide to call with.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:19 pm GMT by Jauron
Wow, All-in for a pot that small? The blinds are small still, I am a "defender" anyways so I decide to smooth call. This sends a message to the table even if I end up folding on later streets. If I do not hit the flop I can let it go, it's a cheap flop and I'm not really worried about losing what I put in. Since I am heads up already I consider this a fairly risk free play. If I had position or if I feel villian would lay down the hand for a reasonable re-raise I raise but since I don't feel that way I feel a call is better for me, plus it hides my hand if I connect.
***** Hand History for Game 4990205342 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:27631058 Level:2 Blinds(30/60) - Sunday, August 20, 17:27:35 ET 2006
Table Table 112850 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 6: Jauron ( 1925 )
Seat 2: dirt_mcgirt9 ( 2180 )
Seat 9: cajun_cookin ( 5925 )
Seat 3: Uinhr ( 2211 )
Seat 10: VICTORIAFEC ( 1960 )
Seat 7: time_is_now ( 2340 )
Seat 8: PartMoos ( 1699 )
Seat 4: Thro84 ( 1760 )
Trny:27631058 Level:2
Blinds(30/60)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Jauron
time_is_now folds.
PartMoos folds.
cajun_cookin folds.
VICTORIAFEC raises 170.
dirt_mcgirt9 folds.
Uinhr folds.
Thro84 folds.
Jauron calls 110.
** Dealing Flop **   
Jauron checks.
VICTORIAFEC bets 250.
Jauron ??
Now Ive hit the flop hard, I am only behind to AQ or QQ. My money is probably going in regardless now and with no flush draws on board it's fairly safe to check here. I can also check since I know villian will often follow up on the flop regardless of if it helped her. After her follow through bet I have another decision to make.
Check Raise-
I could check raise and I would probably take down the pot, if I get called or raised back my money goes into the middle and we find out if they have the cooler. Pot is still smallish now and is open to some draws but nothing that needs the King can improve. Follow through bet size here could mean anything, I am unsure what villian holds check raise would give me more info but it also exposes my hand while the pot is still easy to get away from.
Smooth Call- I've already "slow played" this far, I might get more action on the turn if I just call. Villian has shown a willingness to fire on serveral streets if she connects. I run the risk however of her checking behind me on turn and I'm unlikely to get paid off on the river if she checks the turn. I can also smooth call here with the intention of leading out regardless of what hits on the turn to further confuse Villian, if I get a call I'm probably going to get more action on the river. This play doesn't totally expose my hand as it could be the Queen or the turn card that I like but if villian does not hold the Queen or the turn card I may loose villian.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:37 pm GMT by UrAteUp
Call here. You have a good hand. Chances are villian is on Ax or QX. No need to get scared out of this pot yet, but also no need to ram jam all your chips into the center just yet. Milk it for what it is worth at this point.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:40 pm GMT by shorn7
I don't see any reason to check raise here. There are only two hands that you are worried about (QQ and AQ) and frankly, you are going broke now regardless if villain holds those hands. So, the real key is how to get the rest of your chips in the middle. I would check/call here and on the turn and then lead the river no matter what else comes. Hopefully, viallain holds AJ or AT and you will double through.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:56 pm GMT by Jauron
Yeah the flop is pretty standard given the way I played it preflop, and given the villians likely to fire another bullet I feel it's my best move to just smooth call and plan to check the turn.
***** Hand History for Game 4990205342 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:27631058 Level:2 Blinds(30/60) - Sunday, August 20, 17:27:35 ET 2006
Table Table 112850 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 6: Jauron ( 1925 )
Seat 2: dirt_mcgirt9 ( 2180 )
Seat 9: cajun_cookin ( 5925 )
Seat 3: Uinhr ( 2211 )
Seat 10: VICTORIAFEC ( 1960 )
Seat 7: time_is_now ( 2340 )
Seat 8: PartMoos ( 1699 )
Seat 4: Thro84 ( 1760 )
Trny:27631058 Level:2
Blinds(30/60)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Jauron
time_is_now folds.
PartMoos folds.
cajun_cookin folds.
VICTORIAFEC raises 170.
dirt_mcgirt9 folds.
Uinhr folds.
Thro84 folds.
Jauron calls 110.
** Dealing Flop **
Jauron checks.
VICTORIAFEC bets 250.
Jauron calls 250.
** Dealing Turn ** 
Jauron checks.
VICTORIAFEC bets 300.
Jauron ???
The turn bet is kind of a let down. It seems more defensive than anything to me. I am now putting villian on a pair, not sure if it's the Queen or not. My real problem is I prefer to get villian to commit a few more chips helping to ensure I can make a strong move on the river and will likely to be called. The spade doesn't really bother me much, if she back doors a flush I'm going to pay it off and seems a little less likely since I hold the Ace of spades.
I can check raise here to get Villian to put more into the pot or again smooth call planning on making my move on the river. I'm torn here, if I can get villian to call a check raise I feel I can get a bigger bet on the river. If I smooth call and lead out I probably have to bet smallish to get paid off.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:06 pm GMT by UrAteUp
If you want to extract the most you can from villian I have to agree with a check raise on this turn. If he comes over the top then you might have an answer your not going to like. I don't think calling here will do it and it might give him a chance to fill up for a boat and kill your set, provided he isn't already masterfully playing QQ or 22 right now. I would check raise about 200 more on top of him here. Not too big but just enough to maybe get a little more information and some more of his chips in this pot.
At this point in time I have to put villian on Ax, KK or a straight draw.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:34 pm GMT by MrDarling
I call.
If she have no hand, any raise from you will make her fold.
The small bet on the turn can mean a monster - A2 , 22 , etc... or a weak attempt in driving you away.
If its the first, you're beat and will lose all your money on the river.
If its the latter, she will not call any bet.
I really can't see her calling a check raise unless she have a hand that beats you.
Posted Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:22 am GMT by shorn7
| Quote: | I call.
If she have no hand, any raise from you will make her fold.
The small bet on the turn can mean a monster - A2 , 22 , etc... or a weak attempt in driving you away.
If its the first, you're beat and will lose all your money on the river.
If its the latter, she will not call any bet.
I really can't see her calling a check raise unless she have a hand that beats you.
|
Agreed. I am going to the felt with your hand anyway, so call here and then lead the river. That looks more suspicious than the CR which is a big indiacator of major strength.
Posted Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:39 am GMT by Jauron
I decided to check raise the min, to commit half villians chips. Villian calls after a few seconds. My plan was to just push on the river and hope villian would be stubborn. The river was a suprise but backed up my read on the turn.
***** Hand History for Game 4990205342 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:27631058 Level:2 Blinds(30/60) - Sunday, August 20, 17:27:35 ET 2006
Table Table 112850 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 6: Jauron ( 1925 )
Seat 2: dirt_mcgirt9 ( 2180 )
Seat 9: cajun_cookin ( 5925 )
Seat 3: Uinhr ( 2211 )
Seat 10: VICTORIAFEC ( 1960 )
Seat 7: time_is_now ( 2340 )
Seat 8: PartMoos ( 1699 )
Seat 4: Thro84 ( 1760 )
Trny:27631058 Level:2
Blinds(30/60)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Jauron
time_is_now folds.
PartMoos folds.
cajun_cookin folds.
VICTORIAFEC raises 170.
dirt_mcgirt9 folds.
Uinhr folds.
Thro84 folds.
Jauron calls 110.
** Dealing Flop **
Jauron checks.
VICTORIAFEC bets 250.
Jauron calls 250.
** Dealing Turn **
Jauron checks.
VICTORIAFEC bets 300.
Jauron raises 600.
VICTORIAFEC calls 300.
** Dealing River ** 
Jauron ???
Ok now I have the nuts and I suddenly don't like my plan. I've given my hand away on the turn although the mini raise could just be the Queen.
Do I still push and hope she holds the queen? Do I try to bet an amount she cannot fold to? Should I find an amount that looks defensive and is likely to be called but might induce a raise if she holds the queen Do I dare check and show weakness? Does it even matter?
Damn the internet and it's 15 seconds to act....
Posted Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:42 am GMT by Skribbles
You both have about ~900 left so I'd say push.
Posted Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:45 am GMT by UrAteUp
I wouldn't even have to ask myself or anyone what to do here. There is only one thing you can do here...PUSH!!! They will either call or lay down here but either way you played this hand well.
Posted Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:07 pm GMT by shorn7
I would hesitate for a while and then push. MAke it look like a bluff or that you also have a queen and are trying to make her lay down the same.
Posted Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:01 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| shorn7 wrote: | | I would hesitate for a while and then push. MAke it look like a bluff or that you also have a queen and are trying to make her lay down the same. |
No this is when you type into chat..."Man I have to think my JJ is beat here but I got to find out."....
Posted Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:55 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
All-in, all-in, and more all-in.
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:45 am GMT by Biowza
| UrAteUp wrote: | | shorn7 wrote: | | I would hesitate for a while and then push. MAke it look like a bluff or that you also have a queen and are trying to make her lay down the same. |
No this is when you type into chat..."Man I have to think my JJ is beat here but I got to find out.".... |
LOL i would SO do that
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:05 am GMT by MrDarling
She is sooo commited, she'd have to call any bet if she have half decent hand. She's is now probably real sorry she didn't play her Q's harder.
Wouldn't it be funny if she was also holding an A - hi, its only online poker.
| UrAteUp wrote: | | shorn7 wrote: | | I would hesitate for a while and then push. MAke it look like a bluff or that you also have a queen and are trying to make her lay down the same. |
No this is when you type into chat..."Man I have to think my JJ is beat here but I got to find out.".... |
From my expirience both of the above are a hugh sign of strength in online poker.
Though not every body read them right.
I had a guy saying to me on chat while we were last 3 on a S&G : "I really don't want to be out but..."
I knew he had a hugh hand, but his stack was sooo small I would have called with anything and I told him so.
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:50 am GMT by Iron Butt
What I like here sometimes is you bet half your stack, with the idea of it looking like you're trying to hold on to some chips if you lose. But all in's fine too LOL, no wrong bet here I guess with the dead nuts.
Posted Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:19 am GMT by efram
nice hand,
Push the rest of your chips in and hope for a call.
I'm slightly tempted to check the nuts here but if I were villian I would check down. But if villian holds a Q, you check the river, I would imagine she would push as she's played very aggressive so far.
but, you want to get paid off.
I PUSH.
My money is on villian having KQ.
Posted Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:19 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Nah, I bet villain has AA for the cooler... 5 Aces!
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