Posted Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:03 pm GMT by efram
What do you think of my play up to this point and what do you call, raise or ?? next?
PokerStars Game #6005785549: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/08/21 - 22:49:40 (ET)
Table 'Silke' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: tiltbad ($19.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Efram ($27.75 in chips)
Seat 3: l_Play_Rags ($10.85 in chips)
Seat 4: blueyedjack ($18.35 in chips)
Seat 5: ranger2626 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 6: heavyboots ($13 in chips)
tiltbad: posts small blind $0.10
Efram: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Efram  
l_Play_Rags said, "tryin to trap, it happens"
l_Play_Rags said, "lol"
l_Play_Rags: folds
blueyedjack said, "yea"
l_Play_Rags said, "plus im high"
blueyedjack: calls $0.25
ranger2626: calls $0.25
blueyedjack said, "me too"
heavyboots: raises $0.50 to $0.75
l_Play_Rags said, "always makes it fun"
tiltbad: folds
Efram: raises $1.25 to $2
blueyedjack: folds
ranger2626: folds
heavyboots: calls $1.25
*** FLOP ***   
Efram: bets $2.50
heavyboots: raises $2.50 to $5
blueyedjack said, "I'm rooting for ya heavy"
Efram - ?
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Posted Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:27 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
The fact that he didn't reraise before the flop worries me. I would figure he would do so with AA, KK, or QQ, but he might have got "cute" when he figured the pot would be heads-up.
Then there's the minraise, which only leaves him $6 behind. This sucks, because due to the size of his stack, we may have to pay him off.
Hand ranges for the villain:
AA, KK, or QQ: Possible, but considering his short stack and the fact that you put in a second raise pre-flop, I'd rate this possibility at no higher than 10%
JJ, TT, or 99: These are definitely more likely, and his raise is most likely a feeler bet to determine whether you raised with a big pair or AK. I'd say this is probably about 45%.
77 or 55: Also possible since that board is unlikely to have helped overcards. Slightly more unlikely, however. 10%.
33 or 22: Even less likely, as he probably would not raise with these pre-flop and may just smooth call on the flop hoping to slow you down. 5%.
88, 66, or 44: Now we're talking trouble. 88 fits the action almost perfectly, but would he have raised with 66 or 44 pre-flop? Probably a 20% chance of one of these hands.
Two overcards: Also possible if he thinks you missed, and also possible if he has a backdoor flush as well. Still, the chance of him missing the flop and still deciding to raise is quite slim. 5%.
All other hands: 5%.
So given the range of hands combined with the fact it will cost you at most $8.50 to see a showdown, I think you need to reraise him right now. But it's a "crying re-raise," if there is such a thing.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:21 am GMT by Oasis
I reckon he has 88 in the pocket.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:52 am GMT by Incognito129
I'd definitely call atleast. Check on turn if he bets then fold.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:18 am GMT by fiezk
| Incognito129 wrote: | | I'd definitely call atleast. Check on turn if he bets then fold. |
This is a weak play. If you decide to call the flop the pot will be $14. If Villain goes all-in on the turn you'll have to call $6 into a $20 pot making it a mandatory call given your hand.
I hate to see the min-raise in this spot, it really looks like he hit a set - probably 8's. But given the size of your opponent's stack and the fact that your bet on the flop might have looked meek, I'd probably make a crying push as Diamond Cutter wrote.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:17 am GMT by Incognito129
So if he goes all-in on the turn you'd have to call because of the pot odds? If someone's that aggressive and then goes all-in wouldn't that suggest he has the nuts?
I dont know if he's conservative, aggressive or just plain bluffing. If he is conservative then his reraise on the flop would most likely mean he has AA, KK, QQ or 88. With any other hand i dont see anyone reraising and calling a reraise preflop. If he's agressive or bluffing he is beat.
With this crying reraise I dont know if i'd be scared. He probably knows we have face cards and with our preflop and flop bets and the fact that the flop is nothing but crap. With that in mind we are holding the lower of the pairs. I wouldn't put him on 88's though cause who really calls a reraise with 88.
I'd put him on 40% 88's and 60% face pair. At this point i'd think im beat and just call to see the turn and see if it helps.
A crying reraise would only help if he had QQ KK. If he has AA or 88 then he wont care.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:27 am GMT by shorn7
Well, I don't usually re-raise with JJ preflop. This hand is best for set value especially against someone who holds AA-QQ. There are just too many flops that come with an overcard that I don't like, so I would have smoothcalled preflop.
As for the play on the flop, I think it is likely you are beat here, but it is a tough laydown. I would tink the decision for me to go ahead and lay it down is that he is definitely pushing the turn no matter what comes, so you are effectively playing for the rest fo his stack. IMO, it isn't big enough to continue, so I would fold here.
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:29 pm GMT by UrAteUp
I think villian has QQ or KK here. Too big of a re-raise pre-flop. I never like taking JJ in that big when there was a standard raise before me. Two choice here after the flop raise, call or fold. I wouldn't reraise. Your best bet is to call and start chantting " Jack, Jack, Jack" and I don't mean Nicholson...  .
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:08 pm GMT by efram
re-read it.
he raised 3xBB pre-flop after 2 limpers.
I then re-raised $1.25 more to $2 and he called.
For this reason I don't put him on any PP that beats me because if, I think, he had QQ, KK or AA he would have bumped it up more than 3xBB after 2 limpers aaaaand probly would have re-raised my re-raise.
Don't have hand history at work, will post next step when I get home.
Pre-flop action:
heavyboots: raises $0.50 to $0.75
l_Play_Rags said, "always makes it fun"
tiltbad: folds
Efram: raises $1.25 to $2
blueyedjack: folds
ranger2626: folds
heavyboots: calls $1.25
Posted Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:35 pm GMT by Jauron
This is probably one of those times without a read I just move in. I feel I am ahead enough of the time here to justify the move against an unknown player.
If I know the player I will consider laying it down. I'm trying hard to not take the stakes into account but for that price I don't think I can lay it down.
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:25 am GMT by efram
I called the flop re-raise because I thought IF he had QQ, KK, or AA, he definitely would have raised more pre-flop with 2 limpers in front.
I also don't put him on a set because I'm betting into him. With a non-scary board, given the pre-flop action, If I had a set and someone was betting into me. I would smooth call hoping for them to stab again on the turn.
I really think I'm ahead but not 100% certain so I only call.
The turn pairs the board, I check, he goes all in for his remaining $6.
Do you call here? Pot is at $15.50
PokerStars Game #6005785549: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/08/21 - 22:49:40 (ET)
Table 'Silke' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: tiltbad ($19.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Efram ($27.75 in chips)
Seat 3: l_Play_Rags ($10.85 in chips)
Seat 4: blueyedjack ($18.35 in chips)
Seat 5: ranger2626 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 6: heavyboots ($13 in chips)
tiltbad: posts small blind $0.10
Efram: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Efram
l_Play_Rags said, "tryin to trap, it happens"
l_Play_Rags said, "lol"
l_Play_Rags: folds
blueyedjack said, "yea"
l_Play_Rags said, "plus im high"
blueyedjack: calls $0.25
ranger2626: calls $0.25
blueyedjack said, "me too"
heavyboots: raises $0.50 to $0.75
l_Play_Rags said, "always makes it fun"
tiltbad: folds
Efram: raises $1.25 to $2
blueyedjack: folds
ranger2626: folds
heavyboots: calls $1.25
*** FLOP ***
Efram: bets $2.50
heavyboots: raises $2.50 to $5
blueyedjack said, "I'm rooting for ya heavy"
Efram: calls $2.50
*** TURN *** 
Efram: checks
heavyboots: bets $6 and is all-in
Efram -?
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:25 am GMT by tame_deuces
With AA/KK we can probably call on the flop and then call on the turn, with JJ there are still alot of cards we don't want to see on the turn so just raise it up on the flop, I'd probably shove the flop since opponent has so little behind and probably calls with a draw anyway.
If we lose, so be it.
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:19 pm GMT by Gunslinger
With those pot odds, you have to call. The only way the 4 on the turn helped him is if he had 44, in which case you were already beat on the flop. No way you can fold here.
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:15 pm GMT by 1988 TR
It's a wierd hand....
I put the guy on Ax that hit the flop. The raise on the flop felt like him saying - "I have some of that - Are you sure you don't just have 2 overcards?" Maybe even A7 or A5 if he is feeling extra spicy. Since you just called, he doesn't think you have a big hand.
If he flopped a set, I guess I don't understand the min-raise back on the flop... It's a pretty innocent rainbow board that I wouldn't think helped your hand given the pre-flop action.
And then the insta all in on the turn. I'm just not feeling a big hand from him like a boat. It is somewhat possible that he is playing AA wierd.... But I'm just not feeling it. I think he has put you on AK.
I would call. If he has you beat, kudos for him for mixing up his play. I just feel like your up against Ax or 99, 1010, 55, 77, etc.
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:16 pm GMT by efram
Yep, I figured I had to call and figured I was ahead to his PP.
I had him on 99 or 1010. I love it when my reads are dialed in like that.
PokerStars Game #6005785549: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/08/21 - 22:49:40 (ET)
Table 'Silke' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: tiltbad ($19.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Efram ($27.75 in chips)
Seat 3: l_Play_Rags ($10.85 in chips)
Seat 4: blueyedjack ($18.35 in chips)
Seat 5: ranger2626 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 6: heavyboots ($13 in chips)
tiltbad: posts small blind $0.10
Efram: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Efram
l_Play_Rags said, "tryin to trap, it happens"
l_Play_Rags said, "lol"
l_Play_Rags: folds
blueyedjack said, "yea"
l_Play_Rags said, "plus im high"
blueyedjack: calls $0.25
ranger2626: calls $0.25
blueyedjack said, "me too"
heavyboots: raises $0.50 to $0.75
l_Play_Rags said, "always makes it fun"
tiltbad: folds
Efram: raises $1.25 to $2
blueyedjack: folds
ranger2626: folds
heavyboots: calls $1.25
*** FLOP ***
Efram: bets $2.50
heavyboots: raises $2.50 to $5
blueyedjack said, "I'm rooting for ya heavy"
Efram: calls $2.50
*** TURN ***
Efram: checks
heavyboots: bets $6 and is all-in
Efram: calls $6
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Efram: shows (two pair, Jacks and Fours)
heavyboots: mucks hand
Efram collected $25.35 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $26.60 | Rake $1.25
Board
Seat 1: tiltbad (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Efram (big blind) showed and won ($25.35) with two pair, Jacks and Fours
Seat 3: l_Play_Rags folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: blueyedjack folded before Flop
Seat 5: ranger2626 folded before Flop
Seat 6: heavyboots (button) mucked  
Posted Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:19 pm GMT by 1988 TR
N1, I think you played the hand nicely. The way you played it, I got a lot of information on what type of hand the opponent had.
Posted Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:52 am GMT by UrAteUp
I agree with TR here. You did play the hand nicely. My feeling was he was possibly playing KK or QQ and wasn't exactly sure what you were playing. If he had AA he most likely would have went over you pre-flop but not always. KK the same thing. I have seen many players just call big raises with these two hands and let the re-raiser bet into them. It is a risky move with a vulernable hand like a PP but it pays off if no one improves.
Good read and good play.
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