Posted Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:17 pm GMT by Iron Butt
So in order to try to figure out just what exactly the hell these people are doing and why, I have decided to adopt the style of the player that seems to do best against me (I feel I have a fairly standard TAG style). I have named this player: The DONKIAC, equal parts donkey and maniac.
Playing like a donkiac:
(V .1)
Preflop:
- Any suited or connecting cards should be taken to the flop, regardless of position or action; any raise short of putting you all-in must be called.
- Any ace should be taken to the flop; any raise short of putting you all-in must be called.
- All-in PF with any PP.
- KJ is the donkiac super bonus powerup hand and is played like a normal player would play AA, i.e. large raise or reraise. Any preflop all-in must be called with KJ.
Postflop:
- Any ace that hits the flop is played like TPTK.
- Any straight or flush draw is played like TPTK.
- Any pair or better is played like the nuts.
- Any less than pot sized bet on the flop must be raised.
- All-in with 5th nuts or better every time.
- Any post-flop situation not covered above, minbet.
These will need some fine tuning and additions I'm sure. So far it's disturbingly effective; in my first game as a donkiac I tripled up in 8 hands by such classic moves as overcalling two all-ins with 69 and easily took second.
I will be committing 100,000* dollars to this project. Findings will be posted, or not, depending on level of interest/flaming and whether I actually discover the secret of poker and/or the universe this way. Anyone who wants to participate is welcome.
*"virtual" dollars. I'm not entirely insane.
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Posted Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:43 pm GMT by fiezk
lol! Fun "project". 
What happened that ticked you off?
Posted Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:13 pm GMT by Alaskadude
LMAO
It sounds kinda like a "Kill Phil" for Donkeys.
How about putting something in there about going all-in to see where you're at?
Posted Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:24 pm GMT by Johny
Phil Ivey recommended on The Circuit playing a lot lower levels than you're used to and play every hand. He said it forces you to find ways to win pots without a hand and you get involved in almost every situation imaginable. That's something I may do sometime.
Posted Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:55 am GMT by MrDarling
lol
This could have been a very interesting experiment ..
however :
| Iron Butt wrote: | | ...*"virtual" dollars. I'm not entirely insane. |
This really takes the poker out of the gamed.
You can't really play poker with fake money. Because, mmmm, its not real !
If you really want to try it - scarifies an amount you can live without, even just 5Xbuyin of micro levels ring game and really try it out.
Posted Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:43 am GMT by mackkie
Playing at micro levels is pretty much the same as playing with play money in the very limited experience i have had at those tables.
Posted Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:05 pm GMT by suitedaces84
One addition to the preflop chart: if someone gave you a bad beat or took a big pot off you their next preflop raise must be 3-bet.
And why not try this at $0.01/0.02 instead of play money?
Posted Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:29 pm GMT by Iron Butt
fiezk: Oh nothing in particular, just years of playing against these kinds of players.
suited: Should've specified, I'm playing NL SNGs. And you don't take bad beats much as a donkiac, in fact I'd say it's probably the world's most effective system for delivering them.
MrD., suited, mackkie: I won't argue the "real stakes = real poker" point nor do I intend to play this style for money. At this point. I will note that a lot of these people seem to take it very seriously judging by for instance the amount of bitching especially at the "higher" stakes LOL. Maybe this is where you come in, as noted, anyone who wants to participate is welcome. And anyone who thinks this is BS is welcome to ignore it or say whatever you need to, I don't care.
Preliminary results
After a smokin' hot start with 3 top 3 finishes in a row during which I was briefly convinced I had stumbled on the secret of poker and the universe, the next 7 were something of a letdown at 0/7 LOL.
250 9p SNG 3rd 675
2000 9p SNG 2nd 3600
10,000 9p SNG 2nd 27,000
2000 18p 0 6/18
2000 9p 0
2000 9p 0
250 90p 0 39/90
2000 18p 0
2000 90p 55/90
2000 18p 7/18
Bet 24,500, won 31,275.
Notes:
- This style is MAGIC if you can get a little luck and a somewhat passive table. Just sit back and alternate between blowing people off hands, getting called down with the best hand, and handing out the worst of horrible soul-crushing bad beats. Never has poker been as easy and fun as those first 3 games.
- Not effective heads-up, some provision must be made.
- Takes a lot of discipline to play a pure donkiac game. In a couple losses I was mid stage chip leader LOL and it was very difficult to not start playing poker.
- Some provision has to be made to allow one to not suicide in obvious situations.
- Ditto against opponents who have figured it out.
- I cannot believe how people fold big pots to minbets.
- There's... something... there. I think I'll have to reevaluate some aspects of my game.
This is kinda starting to feel like a joke that's gone far enough, I might not post on this anymore unless there's interest and maybe some other participants. But I can say it was a lot of fun and I think I learned some things.
Posted Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:11 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| Johny wrote: | | Phil Ivey recommended on The Circuit playing a lot lower levels than you're used to and play every hand. He said it forces you to find ways to win pots without a hand and you get involved in almost every situation imaginable. That's something I may do sometime. |
That is actually some of the best advice I have ever heard.
You'll probably see a bit of me at the $0.01/$0.02 NL tables soon. 
Iron, I'd recommend you try this on the lowest cash tables rather than play money tables. But in any case, you're eventually going to discover it's very unprofitable. Although, I am curious just HOW unprofitable.
Posted Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:53 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Well at a play-money table this 'donkiac' sounds pretty TAG compared to the average player...I mean KJ will most likely be leading _alot_ preflop.
We need cash at the tables!
And you HAVE to say 'lol fish' each time you suck out!
Posted Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:29 pm GMT by Iron Butt
Thanks for the encouragement, however again I will not be wasting I mean investing any money on this for a variety of excellent reasons. Again, anyone is welcome to participate; I'd think it'd be a great way for you high roller types to unwind a little.
I've been trying to think of improvements. A bit more senseless preflop aggression is needed. Maybe add JT for another powerup hand LOL. Also a suicide avoidance clause, hard to balance this with keeping the spirit of the donkiac. Ooh, "the spirit of the donkiac", I like that, that calls for an official donkiac credo. "The donkiac's mission is to achieve profit through mindless aggression, donkbetting, and nasty nasty beats."
Latest results:
2000 13/18
250 9p 3rd 450
10,000 5/9
2000 4/9
2000 7/9
2000 17/18
2000 13/18
2000 10/18
2000 4/9
2000 13/18
10,000 2nd 27,000
2000 13/18
2000 18/18
10,000 7/9
10,000 2nd 27,000
250 1st 1125
Bet 60,500, won 55,575 
Totals 85,000 and 86,850 8)
Notes:
- This run included a long streak of dead cards, went several games without even a single PP to do anything stupid with LOL. Also can't remember the last time I hit a flush. Oh except that 1-card steel wheel against an overpair, now there's a bad beat LOL.
- DAMN you get chip leader a lot this way.
- I have been avoiding obvious suicidal situations, haven't found a good way to put this in the rules yet.
- Minbets are AWESOME. I may never check again.
- Half the power of this system is the general chaos you create... people chase after the "dead" money, people overbet and get caught, good stuff.
So c'mon and get involved, the official experiment is almost over. Still showing a profit and I can't do worse than nearly breaking even LOL.
Posted Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:17 pm GMT by mrcfkane
| Iron Butt wrote: | Minbets are AWESOME. I may never check again.
. |
i cant count the number of steals i make with small ass bets(not necessarily min raise)
i've always liked to raise pf with any two cards but in the past would always check if an ace came on the flop and i didnt have one. now, in the same situation during sngs n tourneys, i throw bets 1/3, some times even 1/5 the pot and i constantly see 2-4 players muck their hands assuming im trying to keep them in the pot with the A. cash games i like to take stronger leads (2/3 pot-overbet pot)with stone bluffs, marginal hands and strong hands.
Posted Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:20 pm GMT by mrcfkane
also if 4 cards 2 a str8 are on the board and you complete the low end of the str8 this is a mandatory all in........and regardless of pot size any hand tp or better (regardless of kicker), you should go all in
Posted Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:50 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Well I tried to play and win every hand at the $0.01/$0.02, and it wasn't the biggest success to say the least.
It wasn't as much fun as I thought, and the players there seemed so bad that often there were pots where there was literally no way to win. It's an interesting theory, but I think I learn more playing LAGgy within my limits without going down to the "chump change" level.
On the upside, hopefully I get good karma for doubling up a few micro players.
Posted Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:48 pm GMT by Iron Butt
DC: Ya that must be brutal, playing every SINGLE hand, yikes... playing 74o for 3BB or a paired 2 with an A on board for the 50th time had me gritting my teeth towards the end LOL. At least I could fold 83o and the like. This wasn't quite as fun as I thought either after the initial rush... It's too bad, I really do feel like I had a bit of a bad streak of cards, I got way less 2 pairs etc. than it seemed like I normally would.
kane: LOL well I've had about enough thanks, you give it a shot. My sense is that your additions would make a heavily suicide-prone system even more so. Ya, minbets pwn.
Final:
2000 16/18
2000 8/9
2000 4/9
2000 2nd 5400
2000 17/18
2000 16/18
250 7/18
2000 7/9
250 10/18
250 3/9 450
250 36/90
15,000 bet, 5850 won, final results 100,000 bet and 92,700 won.
In spite of this somewhat surprising result and the feeling that I had a pretty bad run cardswise, I'd have to say the donkiac style is just not viable. Which comes as a relief LOL. Yes, these people really are just insane or whatever. I do much better as a TAG-ish player.
So what have I learned? I dunno... Probably need to play a few more hands, see a few more flops, when in doubt minbet LOL, have to see what if anything translates to "real" poker.
I made chip leader amazingly often, you could perhaps do much better, which would be quite well I guess, by using this style to that point and then going TAG.
Limping with premium non-paired hands was interesting, seems like I saved a lot of bets on hands that didn't hit while not really getting sucked out on much more.
But the real surprise was the minbet. Sooo many extra pots of all sizes picked up, plus it saved me many many bets by serving as blocking bets, or touching off raising wars, or keeping me minimally involved against those odd people who just won't bet monster hands.
Didn't hit nearly as many bonus straights and flushes as I'd have thought from playing probably 3x as many hands as normal including practically every possible straight and flush starting hand and draw. In spite of this, playing about a million extra hands mostly out of position wasn't nearly as bad as I expected, I seemed to pick up enough extra pots to compensate.
The extra mindless aggression on the flop didn't work nearly as well as I thought it might and seemed to be the first thing opponents would pick up on and counter. I had been hoping that this would pay off big when I did hit but again I just didn't hit as often as I'd been expecting.
So ends the experiment, and not a moment too soon. I hope you enjoyed it.
Posted Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:09 pm GMT by mrcfkane
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | Well I tried to play and win every hand at the $0.01/$0.02, and it wasn't the biggest success to say the least.
It wasn't as much fun as I thought, and the players there seemed so bad that often there were pots where there was literally no way to win. It's an interesting theory, but I think I learn more playing LAGgy within my limits without going down to the "chump change" level.
On the upside, hopefully I get good karma for doubling up a few micro players. |
when i was first playing poker id go to .02/.04 blinds at a full table.
i made it a point to raise 8x the big blind every third or fourth hand that wasnt opend for a raise. every pot i was in i would bulldoze down with pot sized bets and over bets all the way through the river, i didnt care if it were 4 hi or 4 of a kind adn would always muck. the only time i would stop is if i was being called with bottom pair all the way or ace high all the way ( i was good at shutting down against monsters). in that case, id tighten up, bet out the same way and show my hole cards, then go back to the original style
it was common for me to buy in for 5 dollars and leave with $25-$40 in one hour! surprisingly i would never lose that much on a bad day
now i play like a pussy.....trying to get back my fearlessness
Posted Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:36 am GMT by ki_cz
Please add J/9 suited to this list of hands to play like a moron. You can't raise with it, but only call 6xbb raises and then chase a flush.
Posted Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:19 pm GMT by Iron Butt
LOL... got handed a bad one huh? Actually if you look at the rules, J9s being both suited and connecting that's exactly how you would play it.
Wow this kinda got a lot of hits... no one else gave it a try? Cmon lurkers, fess up.
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