Had enough of reading this crap |
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Posted Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:18 pm GMT by cheezewhiz
This posting is anonymous for a reason. Been lurking 2 years, and Im finally sick of reading the replies of you regulars, to the new poker players coming here to learn.
They arrive and ask about the Integrity of online poker. Is it safe ? Is it legit? Is it rigged ? A few of you are quick to slam them down and call them morons. Those of you who do this ( you know who you are), are a DIRECT cause of people getting lured in and losing their money, not to poker, but to completely crooked companies. If you support them, you are a low down thief and you know it. Anyone with an I.Q. of 100+ already has the suspicion of something not being right. So you supporters of online poker being 100% trustworthy, are either blithering idiots, benefactors of money generated from affiliating these companies, or are just jackass liars. YOU PICK.
So just stop - Online poker is not legit in any sense of the word. Professional WPT poker players admit to this - our Government admits to this - YOU should admit to this.
In 2005, many of the biggest online poker rooms, Party, Stars - were overtaken by different owners. These owners are directly linked to fraudulent dealings in the past , the present and of course the future.
Everyone always makes the comment... WHY ? Why would they rig the cash cow ? We all know the answer already. Greed. Sure they can make 10 Billion dollars in rake honestly. But they can make 10 Gazillion dollars in the same time, fleecing unsuspecting poker players with house software.
I quit playing online poker a long time ago. Why do they keep sending me free money to my account ? I play it off with much speed and disregard for the game - and poof, they send more, and more and more.
Why ?
How would this benefit the poker site ? If I win, I didnt deposit any of my own money at all. If I lose, Im not likely to deposit my own money if I only lose it. So why are they happy with making rake, off of players that are using their own money ? Give me 50, to make 5 ? I dont think so.
Poker is going out fast, and the online poker rooms will be a Ghost town, complete with tumbleweeds ,before long. They ALL know this, and are striving with utmost diligence, to get all the money they can, before this happens.
Its kind of funny that these Poker rooms are undertaking such drastic differences in play, almost in unison with the US government about to slam down the hammer on online gambling. Its not a coincidence, and you players that remain, are going to suffer the biggest downswing you ever saw, and it isnt going to swing back 
For the love of GOD and all that is holy - dont delete this thread. Its not the typical rant of a loser. Its not the chicken-scratch crying of a teenager that lost his bankroll. Its not even a conspiracy theory... it is in fact, a true view of online poker that everyone should be able to read. Even if they do not want to believe it.
BTW, those of you that make a decent living on online poker.. Good for you. But we all know you would be doing much much better if it were legit. Sure you can make money, but your being robbed of most of it. You like being robbed ?
I laugh at online poker-pro win rates !! I win more BB/H playing real life tables one at a time over 3 years, than the best online players do playing 8 tables 24 hours per day. Ask yourself why ? (for the really slow - its because there is no hidden agenda for who wins and why) A real life card game doesnt have to perpetuate losing players. In real life, they leave broke, fast !!!
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:29 pm GMT by ninetensuited
you sir, are a losing poker player who has never had the balls to speak up before....Why are you so bitter w/ online poker, if you "dont play" as you say....then why do you care....? We don't care about your well being, why should you care about hours? It is blatantly obvious that you have lost thousands in online poker and are blaming the websites and not your shitty ass play.
Posted Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:37 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Did you know that in any -EV game there will be a big number of people who will at some time in the beginning of playing show a profit. Then after a while as statistics does what it always do, these profits will dwindle away and ever so slowly the -EV player will lose all and little chance of ever gaining a profit.
It's true for slots, blackjack, baccarat, roulette, craps...and it's true for a losing poker player. And these poker players who inevitably lose their 'lucky profit' will in 99% of the cases scream 'foul play' and never look for a truthful answer.
But some come to places like this to learn how poker is about laying your opponent the bad odds and trying to do what is _probably_ right. And then they learn that poker is gambling game where you can actually lose all even if you do the right moves. The cards have no mercy, memory or compassion.
The endgame of it all? You're barking up the wrong tree. Go play hearts or something.
Posted Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:30 pm GMT by mackkie
As far as the cards that are coming out being "rigged", Ive seen just as many bad beats at the casino when compared to online poker. As for free $, it may sound shady, but its just another marketing scheme that these companies come up with in order to get people to play online. Do I personally feel a little more secure and safer when playing at the casino compared to online poker? Hell yeah...But I still enjoy playing online for the tourneys and the donks playing the cash games.
No matter all the people that bash you for posting that, you still have to wonder. Is that stopping me from playing online? No.
Posted Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:34 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| cheezewhiz wrote: | | For the love of GOD and all that is holy - dont delete this thread. Its not the typical rant of a loser. Its not the chicken-scratch crying of a teenager that lost his bankroll. Its not even a conspiracy theory... it is in fact, a true view of online poker that everyone should be able to read. Even if they do not want to believe it. |
It'll be kept for entertainment value, if nothing else.
Posted Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:52 pm GMT by Ryan_j37
I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:08 am GMT by Oasis
Dear OP,
Grow a set.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:18 am GMT by ki_cz
So, OP, if somebody is losing hands, doesn't that mean that somebody else is winning hands? So, if I'm about to go on the "biggest downswing of my life", aren't other people going to be on the biggest upswing of their life at the same time?
It is really unfortunate that you lack enough of a grasp of the game to not lose your money playing. I would suggest contacting whichever site you lost on, get all of your hand histories and run them through a poker hand analyzing program. I'm sure you'd be surprised to see that in reality, you didn't get screwed, you're just a bad player.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:50 am GMT by ninetensuited
| ki_cz wrote: | So, OP, if somebody is losing hands, doesn't that mean that somebody else is winning hands? So, if I'm about to go on the "biggest downswing of my life", aren't other people going to be on the biggest upswing of their life at the same time?
It is really unfortunate that you lack enough of a grasp of the game to not lose your money playing. I would suggest contacting whichever site you lost on, get all of your hand histories and run them through a poker hand analyzing program. I'm sure you'd be surprised to see that in reality, you didn't get screwed, you're just a bad player. |
please excuse my language but...................
A f*cking men
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:12 am GMT by UrAteUp
Great first post cheez. You really know how to win over the masses buddy... . I agree with Sean, this post will be around for entertainment if nothing else. So rant on Cheez....
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:33 am GMT by lwestatbus
| cheezewhiz wrote: | | ...Online poker is not legit in any sense of the word...our Government admits to this |
Well there's a reason to give it up. Actually, which government? This forum is truly international with seeming heavy participation from UK, Canada, US, and Scandinavia. And, get this--these governments don't seem to be in agreement with each other or you.
I agree on the entertainment value of the post. Does it rate beng made sticky? Maybe even a new forum category--"Rants and Raves". I'm serious. Most posts probably wouldn't originate there but it would give a great place for the Admins to collect this and similar literary efforts. And they are entertaining.
Pool ol' Cheezy truly thinks he is educating the masses. Maybe we've hurt his feelings.
Also, how do you post anonymously? Aren't we all as anonymous as we want to be on this forum? And even if we knew who Cheezy was is he afraid that somebody from the Poker Police is going to track him down and steal his blinds? If there is a vast conspiracy among poker rooms is it a right-wing or left-wing conspiracy? (Apologies to our non-US members--you have to follow US politics to get that last.)
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:12 am GMT by MasterShake
I'm a winning online player. Your theory is flawed.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:59 am GMT by shorn7
OK cheezy, I will bite. Sure...could online poker be rigged? Of course it could. As could any other enterprise out there to make money (Enron and Worldcom come to mind). But, despite you bringing out all the "usual" arguments, you haven't provided any proof. Reason? There isn't any. Speculation is speculation whether it be in an argument or in the stock market.
You can have your opinion and that is fine...everyone has one and is entiteld to express it. But don't come on here and slam regular posters, beginning players, and winning players in a drive by when you can't offer anything concrete to back up your claims. By doing so, you sound like a whining loser and lose all credibility with everyone on here.
Glad that you are winning consistently in the casino. But don't kid yourself...they offer the same promotions to get people in the door as the online sites. It is no different.
In closing, enjoy your non-on-line life. I am sure we (and our bankrolls) will miss you.
Shorn
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:13 pm GMT by mindgame
Just fyi
A couple months back I posted a link to a site--not affiliated with any poker rooms--that is a sort of Consumers' Report on online poker. It gave a watch list of places whose financial stability was judged weak based on the length of time to make payouts. It also (if I remember correctly) was tracking complaints lodged against different poker sites. Most of these were lodged with online money-movers like netteller, so it's seemed a reasonable way to do that sort of thing.
My post generated little interest, but the fact remains that such information is available here. Furthermore, I have made no secret of my fundamental dislike and distrust of online poker--and I'm a moderator, for god's sake.
No, I'm not in the majority...far, far from it. However, it is certainly clear to me that this site affords any reasonable (or usually reasonable) person the opportunity to speak his mind.
Getting slammed????
Well hell yes! I get slammed all the time. If your skin is too thick for that you'll never be a poker player. Suck it up an type.
edit: Based on 40+ years of poker playing I believe it is foolish not to be distrustful--to some degree--of all forms of poker. The fact is poker players are people and people cheat. It's one of the crappy things people do. One of the ways the really really GOOD ones get away with it is--first of all--by appearing to be the kind of people that would NEVER do that sort of thing. Humans lie cheat and steal. They do it everywhere and all the time. Maybe most of them are honest. That leaves only 49% that you need to worry about.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:37 pm GMT by Fat Tony
| cheezewhiz wrote: | | This posting is anonymous |
Your long rant lost all credibility right there.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:24 pm GMT by cheezewhiz
Ahh, all the names I figured I'd see replying.
Just for detail - I was absolutely a winning online player. I just didnt like what I saw going on. I'd still do it if it were worth the time put in, but it isnt without making it a fulltime job. I also mentioned that yes there are plenty of people making money at poker online. Any good player can, but its NOT as much as you SHOULD be winning.
Im not claiming that people are cheating others at the table. Im not claiming that the RNG is faulty. Im not claiming that suckouts and big action is programmed. ( it could be , but not claiming that).
What Im claiming, is that the very companies that run these sites, are thieves. Without risking my safety, lets just say that at any one time, there are many thousand fake players seated amongst the rest. They look real, play real, and come and go real. Only thing is, they arent even a real person. NO they are not BOT software either They are house shills, and are completely software created - not even human beings. Designed to do exactly what you would imagine.... call a huge bet or All in, when they know the outcome will be in its favor. Simple.
A 4.00 game at Walmart has this capability. The Walmart game doesnt even make itself Billions by cheating.. it just does, because it is a program. Think about that for a minute. What about video games. Do you think when you bluff, that you actually are fooling the software. NO , it knows what you have dummy
I could probably write a script to do this in 10 minutes.
So, I dont really give a hoot what you all say. Ive been laughing since I clicked the URL to get here. Keep on trashing and smashing. Its just proof to the onlookers who the Hardcore supporters of the online market are
In final. Some of you ask - IF YOU DONT PLAY, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH etc etc.
Well, then I ask you. IF ITS LEGIT, AND YOU KNOW THAT, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH WHEN PEOPLE CLAIM IT ISNT ???? What is it hurting you ? Lets here it URATEUP and Ninetensuited ! Why do you care so much and get so riled up when people talk about this ?? Why are you so bothered ? Why must you defend like a brother, the online poker industry? Why is it so personal to you ? Lets hear it bro.
And mindgame... at least someone has some thinking power. You all should listen to this person a little more.
If people write on some forum somewhere, that they saw an Alien or Bigfoot.... I wouldnt go ballistic and rant and scream like a lunatic about them being soooo stupid and call them losers Yet you do that exactly every day on here. Whats the deal man ? Other than being a lying jackass that is.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:33 pm GMT by Skribbles
| cheezewhiz wrote: |
Without risking my safety, lets just say that at any one time, there are many thousand fake players seated amongst the rest. |
HAHAHAHA!!!
The big bad poker sites are gonna hunt you down!
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:41 pm GMT by mindgame
Jeez, I don't know...
But this guy strikes me as brilliant and incisive. He's got a keen mind and he's an excellent judge of character.
King Moderator edit:
Guys! Please don't pay any attention to mindgame. He's just a management shill to make the place look legit. Actually all of us take turns making his posts up./i
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:42 pm GMT by cheezewhiz
Skribbles, you obviously have no idea what kind of people run these Poker sites do you They are all in isolated tropical islands for a reason.
And if a person had physical proof and held a press conference in the middle of Time Square to spew the news... he probably wouldnt stay alive very long.
Hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars. There are people that would cut your throat in the middle of the street for 10 bucks dude.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:22 pm GMT by Skribbles
So I guess that why people who come in here claiming "its rigged" never post again.
Those bastards! Killing thousands of innocents for claiming online poker is rigged.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:47 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| Quote: | King Moderator edit:
Guys! Please don't pay any attention to mindgame. He's just a management shill to make the place look legit. Actually all of us take turns making his posts up./i |
Hey who posted this?...No one was to know mindgame was a joint effort on all of us writing... 
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:53 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
After reading this, I've developed a theory.
I'm convinced that the evil entities at mansionpoker.net poisoned Ben Roethlisberger, resulting in an emergency appendectomy and forcing him to miss the game against the Dolphins. Without Big Ben, the chances of a Steelers' victory are significantly reduced.
As a result, they will need only to refund the original wagers and avoid paying out any of their ill-gotten gains to the winners of such a wager.
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:35 pm GMT by vyni
I think we may need to revisit the obvious.
Evaluate situations, and make your own decisions. There are some who do not trust online play. Think that's been established.
If a person feels there is foul play, what right does anyone have to tell them otherwise? We can try and rationalize everything for them, but in the end they have a distrust for whatever reason and that's the end of the issue.
If you don't trust the poker rooms, then stay out of them. Only an idiot would continue to participate where they believe foul play is involved.
I'll be playing again tonight, and I'll grin at every fish who cries 'rigged' just because his push with pocket kings didnt pay off. "Ahh, all the names I figured I'd see replying".... these cries to a poker forum, on a subject you admit we've all voiced in on before.... were you expecting your post to somehow change everyones position? You scoff at these typical replies to your typical suspicions?
Say I watch geno walk by a dog, kick him, and the dog bites him. Then tony walks by the dog, kicks him, and the dog bites him. Now I walk up to the dog, kick him, and then proceed to tell to the dog how lame he is for biting me... see where I'm going with this?
Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:14 pm GMT by suitedaces84
On the classic 1 to 10 trolling scale I give this a 6. I enjoyed the angry tone throughout and it was kinda funny. It lost points because it was not well written and lacked originality.
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:07 am GMT by ki_cz
If online poker is actually "rigged" then wouldn't there have to be some kind of system behind it? And if there was a system, wouldn't you be able to decipher this system and exploit it after generating a sample of 10s of thousands of hands?
But if you can't seem to figure out the system of how it is rigged and it seems like bad beats occur almost randomly, then, wouldn't that make the system 'random'?
The people who cry out "rigged" should be the people who make the most money. They seem to have some kind of knowledge beyond the common poker player because they can sense that something isn't right. Since they all claim that they could prove this with hand histories, why don't they use that knowledge for their own profit???
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:40 am GMT by Geno
Last time I was at the Mirage playing a 3/6 FL game I was dealt 55 in LP. The pot was capped before it reached me so since I had over $500 in front of me, naturally I called. The flop came QJ9 or something and I missed entirely. Action was sparse and by the time it reached me I had about 22 to 1 on the pot. Turn was a 5. Again, action was fairly sparse and although I figured my set of 5s was no good, I called again despite myself. River was a 5 and I made quads to win. No-one shouted the word rigged. Weird.
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:18 am GMT by tame_deuces
| cheezewhiz wrote: |
Well, then I ask you. IF ITS LEGIT, AND YOU KNOW THAT, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH WHEN PEOPLE CLAIM IT ISNT ???? |
If it is not legit why do you care so much when people claim it is?
I love self-justifying use of logic, go troll somewhere else. alt.black.heliccopters is a group that should suit you fine.
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:46 am GMT by MrDarling
| cheezewhiz wrote: | Ahh, all the names I figured I'd see replying.
...Well, then I ask you. IF ITS LEGIT, AND YOU KNOW THAT, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH WHEN PEOPLE CLAIM IT ISNT ???? What is it hurting you ? |
Its one think to think / claim all online poker is rigged without any real prove, its totally another thing (and slightly on the paranoid side) to think every one who protect it is part of the conspiracy .
Look, we all get upset and protect it because
A. we actually believe its no rigged (try posting on any religious site that their GOD is fake and see what kind of responds you get)
B. we actually put money due to this belief. If you are right and we are wrong , not only do we look and feel like stupid we're actually giving money away. Not body likes to believe they are suckers.
So some of us will attack anyone who raises claims without any proof. While the rest of us will ask politely for any real evidence beside your gut feelings or your lack of trust in man kind.
Its true, people cheat and steal... But I think it is real sad that one has to live life without trust. I for one preferred to be scammed out of a couple of $ then to live life like a paranoid.
You choose your own way and good luck with it!
Danny.
imy real name/i
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:47 am GMT by MrDarling
btw, just for the record, so far I'm a loosing player.
Have deposited twice and some how lost it all - and still I don't think I lost my money because the site I play on is rigged.
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:32 pm GMT by cheezewhiz
In reply to Geno ! Although your story didn't really make sense to argue this discussion.. it brought a thought to mind.
Replay that exact hand in your head, and imagine it happening 14 times in 2 hours. Possible ? Not likely. Possible online ? Sure is, every day to 23,000 different people. The 23,000 opponents that had the nuts prior to the river would individually chalk that up to random bad luck. Get all those people together though, and discuss those hands, and you realize something - We got conned.
If any of you could actually see , what "everyone else" was experiencing all together at once across the 10's of thousands of tables... you wouldn't want to play anymore online. Most of you may still play, but man your stomach would get sick when you realized the big picture.
Also, maybe I should go to a specialized "School for Proper Writing Techniques", so my 6 out of 10 score can be higher !!! Made me giggle though, so thanks. How far out in left field are you ?
Ok - everyone can let it die now , Ive said what I wanted to say. Just remember those who cried foul, and whined alot about online poker. One day you'll be thinking to yourself, how those "dumbasses" were smarter than you. You'll probably mutter " Well I'll be damned".
And for the LAST time ( thank God). Online poker is NOT rigged. They just straight out Cheat you with house players , that/who are merely programs running. So that " Tommyou812", that called your all in with 4,8os for no reason on a board of A,K, Q hearts - then hit 8 , 8 -well, he may not just be a stupid Donk Anyone getting this ?
Later.
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:02 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Different topic, but it fits here.
| cheezewhiz wrote: | | Ok - everyone can let it die now , Ive said what I wanted to say. Just remember those who cried foul, and whined alot about online poker. One day you'll be thinking to yourself, how those "dumbasses" were smarter than you. You'll probably mutter " Well I'll be damned". |
Since you haven't offered a shred of proof, I think I'll merely thank you for the chuckle.
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:29 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| cheezewhiz wrote: | | Ahh, all the names I figured I'd see replying. |
I hope you were counting on seeing me here at your post. I really hate to be left out of something.... .
| Quote: | | They are house shills, and are completely software created - not even human beings. Designed to do exactly what you would imagine.... call a huge bet or All in, when they know the outcome will be in its favor. Simple. |
How did you know I was software created? My mommy says I wasn't, that I was the product of love.... .
Anyhow, I disagree with you here. I often do this myself by misreading or putting a player on a weaker hand then they generally have. Yes I do know there are "house shills" out there at some sites. I know one or two of them who play at various sites (both play at very reputable sites). In speaking with them I can tell you that these players are human and they do not get to know what cards are coming and when. They play by instinct and odds, much as any of us great poker players do. They play off of a site account that is comprised of rake (small % of it too because these sites make a ton off of rake).
| Quote: | A 4.00 game at Walmart has this capability. The Walmart game doesnt even make itself Billions by cheating.. it just does, because it is a program. Think about that for a minute. What about video games. Do you think when you bluff, that you actually are fooling the software. NO , it knows what you have dummy
I could probably write a script to do this in 10 minutes. |
Yes your right, the software does know what you have and if your bluffing or not, the problem is the other players do not. Haven't you ever heard of donkey poker or a donkey player? That player who makes the long shot call with 4 or less outs and hits it? Well me just say I have been that player many times and probably will be many more times. It's all about the game of poker. It is all about playing the game of poker. Sometimes risk equals reward. Sometimes stupidity does get paid off. But does that mean that player JoeBlow is really a software and not a real player? Hardly, it just means you got one more donk to add to the buddy list.
| Quote: |
So, I dont really give a hoot what you all say. |
A hoot? What part of Alabama are you from again?...  . If you don't care what we say or why we say it then why make a big deal about how others have responded to you? Evidentally my friend, you must care or you wouldn't come back with rebuttle...but it's all good. Some of us to champion a great debate.... .
| Quote: | In final. Some of you ask - IF YOU DONT PLAY, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH etc etc.
Well, then I ask you. IF ITS LEGIT, AND YOU KNOW THAT, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH WHEN PEOPLE CLAIM IT ISNT ???? What is it hurting you ? Lets here it URATEUP and Ninetensuited ! Why do you care so much and get so riled up when people talk about this ?? Why are you so bothered ? Why must you defend like a brother, the online poker industry? Why is it so personal to you ? Lets hear it bro. |
Owwww the gauntlet has been cast. It isn't personal to me. I think it a stupid accusation to make when you bring NO PROOF. Got some proof online poker is rigged? You yourself said a good player can make money online. Well I can't say I am good but I must be able to hold my own. But this isn't about my ability...or lack of... ...this is about another half ass claim that online poker is rigged.
If it is rigged then please bring proof. Time to shit or get off the pot.
| Quote: | | And mindgame... at least someone has some thinking power. You all should listen to this person a little more. |
No one said mindgame wasn't smart in his own right. He is living proof as you are that online poker isn't for everyone. Some people like it and some don't. To each his own.
| Quote: | | If people write on some forum somewhere, that they saw an Alien or Bigfoot.... I wouldnt go ballistic and rant and scream like a lunatic about them being soooo stupid and call them losers Yet you do that exactly every day on here. Whats the deal man ? Other than being a lying jackass that is. |
Since when did I call you a loser? Not once in my original post did I call you a loser, crazy, stupid or any nasty little names. So why do you want to call me a jackass?...  ...you trying to hurt my feelings?... ...well try harder because this didn't work.
In closing let me just say I can respect your right to come out with claims online poker is rigged or cheats people. Please respect mine when I say bring the proof. I am originally from Missouri, USA. We have a state motto that really sums it up nicely. " Show me!!"
Edit: I really hope I add entertainment value to this post for all the people who read it for entertainment. Any critacism is welcome to improve this for you... :D
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