Posted Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:26 pm GMT by rlb2252
Someone on this forum mentioned to me that it was important to find a limit that was meaningful to me. I had posed a question about going down in limits.
I’m currently playing 0.25/0.50 limit Hold Em, after spending a few losing sessions at higher levels that peaked at 2/4.
While it has been important for me, I think, to get my “lessons cheap” (another bit of advice from the forum and very wise at the time), I believe I’m running into problems at this level. The problem is not really one of skill. I’m holding my own at this level, getting a little better with every session I deposit in my Knowledge bank.
The problem is more precisely one of motivation, coupled by the fact that I sometimes lose at this level even though I might initially pull ahead. Why? Because the money is so insignificant, I’m less likely to stop when I am ahead.
I can think of several losing sessions where I nearly doubled my initial stake (albeit a miniscule one of perhaps ten bucks or so) early on, only to lose it back before the session concluded.
I understand that such quirks are part and parcel of gambling, but, in my case, I simply have little motivation to stop when ahead, since in some situations my account balance would only increase by the Lordly sum of eight dollars and fifteen cents.
If this is getting my lessons cheap, I just might be getting them so cheap that it defeats the purpose.
So now I’m asking myself: Would I have more respect for my small successes if the money was more significant? Would I be more inclined to bank a win in a 2/4 game, if I had doubled my initial stake of say, $100 to $200.
All of this, of course, would be contingent on whether my game was ready for this higher level of competition. Like I mentioned previously, I got my butt kicked at higher limits a month ago and I’m not too obstinate to creep back down with my tail between my legs if that were to happen again.
My plan would be to ease up in limits one level at a time, see how I fare. I do OK financially in the business that I own but I’m not so reckless that I’d make that leap without seeing what my chances were in the games in between, taking a more incremental approach.
I can certainly afford a higher limit, so the decision is less about financial strain as it is about practicality.
At this point in my game I think I need to feel more of a buzz when my chips are at risk. Finding that fine line between playing beyond your bankroll and playing so cheaply that you yawn whether you’re winning or losing might require a bit of fine tuning by me.
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Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:39 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
On the contrary, I think that its a bad idea to 'feel more of a buzz' if you are playing at higher limits...I think its a good idea to forget how much real world dollars you are playing for, and just try to beat the game...otherwise when you get up in limits, you will be thinking about the real world value of your chips, and it is likely to effect your game....I think this is a big misconception about gamblers, is that they just love money....i think you'll find that you play better if you lose all respect for the real world value of the money, and just play the game like it were a friendly game of chess...in that respect, proper bank roll management and good play should be your main focus....if you arent doing well enuf to move up in limits, or you roll cant afford it, then wutever you do, dont let it effect your gameplay.....you can do one of two things, stick to your guns, play your game and slowly move up as your bankroll allows.....or deposit more money if you can afford it (never play w/ money you need for rent or something).....just dont let it effect your play....wutever those chips represent in real life shouldnt mean anything to you strategically
Posted Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:06 pm GMT by Fat Tony
I think people that keep thinking about the money put themselves at a real disadvantage, one that can be exploited by a skillful opponent. Your only concern should be beating whatever table you are sitting at, no matter how small the stakes. It is never a good idea start getting emotional about the money, particularly when losing because that's when people start chasing what they lost and tilt it away at an even faster pace. You can use things like leaving even a small stakes table when you should instead of pissing all your chips away because "it's only ten bucks" as an excercise in self-discipline, a skill which will serve you well when you do start moving up to the higher levels.
Posted Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:30 pm GMT by rlb2252
| Quote: | On the contrary, I think that its a bad idea to 'feel more of a buzz' if you are playing at higher limits...I think its a good idea to forget how much real world dollars you are playing for, and just try to beat the game...
i think you'll find that you play better if you lose all respect for the real world value of the money,
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Interesting concept. It’s both terrifying and intriguing, finding a way to completely divorce your thinking from the dollar amounts of the chips you’re throwing around.
I can’t speak on the merits of it. I know it would do much for the stomach ulcers folks get when a lot is on the line.
On the one hand money has no value to me at the low levels, so, according to your theory, I’m half right. But when I’ve played 2.00/4.00 limit hold em, even though it was with poker winnings, I certainly felt the sweat trickle down my armpits.
Aside from this, when do I know it’s the right time to move up a level? Bankroll is not a problem for me at this point.
Posted Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:55 pm GMT by rlb2252
| Quote: | | You can use things like leaving even a small stakes table when you should instead of pissing all your chips away because "it's only ten bucks" as an excercise in self-discipline, a skill which will serve you well when you do start moving up to the higher levels. |
I’ve gotten better with this, too. I’m not pissing away all of them. Lately, I’ve been leaving enough to walk away as some kind of winner.
I would still like to believe that I would be a better money manager at higher limits. While I agree that playing my chips with the same discipline at micro levels that I would show at higher levels would be ideal, at this point, I simply lack that discipline.
No, wait a minute, strike that. I do play with much of the same discipline. I think what is missing is the psychology. Despite my normally disciplined play, I am very aware that this is mere change that I’m playing with.
Can’t get that part out of my head. Here I am a grown man, a grand father, sitting on the internet, frittering away the hours a few pennies at a time.
I’m playing at these levels solely for my education. It’s not for remuneration. It’s not for entertainment.
Alas, I’m still learning. Saying that I should have more respect for my chips at any level, doesn’t make it happen. I’m painfully aware that I’m playing for chump change, plain and simple.
Maybe the psychological discipline will come in time, as solutions to my many other poker shortcoming hopefully will as well.
Funny thing, though, losing—as I did today—makes you thankful that you were actually playing with quarters rather than dollars.
Posted Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:12 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
I'm really not a regular limit holdem cash game player, but I would guess in the neighborhood of 200-300x the big bet...so for 0.25/0.50 yer looking at a roll of 100-150...but this varies depending on your play...if yer really conservative, ironically, you should be able to get away w/ a smaller roll cuz you won't have as many big swings...and obviously, if yer gonna play no limit, yer roll is gonna hafta be much bigger.....perhaps 20 max buyins...so if the blinds are .25/.50 w/ a max buyin of $50 probably, yer looking at a $1000 bankroll if you wanna handle those long term swings
remember, tho....do not be too full of yourself to hafta bump down in levels if your roll cant support it....so yer gonna want a metric everytime you sit down....look at your roll and divide it by about 200-300, and let that determine your limits...
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