Posted Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:12 am GMT by maxpower52
hi all, just wondering your opinion on this, i was in a no limit holdem game tonight, 2 hands were still active, after the turn, one went all in the other called. the guy that called showed his cards first (he was dealing incidentally) his oponent, who had a flush, felt beaten by the other guys full house and without thinking about the fact that he had 6 outs left mucked his cards (it was still clear which 2 were his in the muck pile) the dealer delt the river anyway and the guy that tossed his cards realised he had ended up with a better full house.
who would you consider to have won the hand? we had a table vote and gave the pot to the player with the better hand (this was after that player offered to split the pot but was turned down, but that doesnt really matter)
anyway just curious what you all might think, thanks
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Posted Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:23 am GMT by Poto
This was a home game, right? In a casino a mucked hand is dead and is not coming back.
Posted Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:20 am GMT by maxpower52
but in a casino wouldnt they have made him show his cards since he was the one called?
Posted Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:30 am GMT by Dave B
No, if it was a cash game, you dont not have to show your hand on an all in. A player can ask to see the hand, but it is not required.
If it was a tournament, usually both players show their hand. I dont know if it is a hard and fast rule everywhere, or if it is just done for TV.
Posted Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:21 am GMT by MasterShake
Rule 2 under Dead Hands in Robert's Rules of Poker states:
| Quote: | | 2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player. |
Since the player had the correct information from his opponent, then it's perfectly acceptable to rule either way, but the key is to rule 'in the best interest of the game'. Since you say the cards were clearly identifiable I would have ruled (if you play cards speak) that the players hand could be retrieved and he'd be awarded the pot if his hand in fact was best.
But then I would warn him and let him know that the rule is not to be abused and that he should wait until the hand is complete before mucking his cards in the future.
Posted Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:28 am GMT by Jauron
I'd consider the mucked hand dead and move on if it hit any of the other discarded hands.
What is really on my mind however is how the hand you described could have existed. How do you have a flush, with a boat draw when the other play already has the boat on the turn?
Posted Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:59 am GMT by maxpower52
good catch on that, you're right that doesnt make sense maybe he just had a flush draw and wasnt thinking about the boat draw (he had had a bit to drink)
thanks for your impute though guys, and ya he was definatly warned not to be tossing out before he's properly out of a hand but really he knows better anyway, he's played lots it was just a bit of a brain fart
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