Posted Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:07 pm GMT by Jauron
PokerStars Game #6444933169: Tournament #32353914, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/09/27 - 22:54:45 (ET)
Table '32353914 107' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: SODIGIT (2515 in chips)
Seat 2: SFLMAN (6402 in chips)
Seat 3: jb64 (1425 in chips)
Seat 4: spikealot (2525 in chips)
Seat 5: glassland (2250 in chips)
Seat 6: akachad (1650 in chips)
Seat 7: CAPEETAN (2558 in chips)
Seat 8: Jauron (3195 in chips)
Seat 9: smitty1959 (2210 in chips)
smitty1959: posts small blind 50
SODIGIT: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jauron  
SFLMAN: calls 100
jb64: folds
spikealot: folds
glassland: folds
akachad: raises 300 to 400
CAPEETAN: folds
Jauron: calls 400
smitty1959: calls 350
SODIGIT: raises 2115 to 2515 and is all-in
SFLMAN: calls 2415
akachad: calls 1250 and is all-in
Jauron: ???
I smooth called on the button because original raiser likes any Ace, but will not fold preflop, I decided with position (button) I'd just call ...action got crazy behind me and suddenly I have no idea where I am.
This isn't supposed to be a real thinker, but I smell something fishy here. SODIGIT has gotten out of line before, but the two calls behind make me want to cry.
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Posted Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:24 am GMT by Phil14312
I'm only afraid of SODIGIT.
If he is reasonable, I probably fold. If he is not, I probably call. Other raiser you said was weak, another just called and will presumably fold, and short-stack is moving in with a lot of hands.
Posted Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:13 am GMT by Skribbles
| Jauron wrote: |
I smooth called on the button because original raiser likes any Ace, but will not fold preflop |
This makes no sense at all. If he will play any ace and won't fold pre-flop calling is horrible. If he doesn't hit his ace on the flop, you get no more out of him. If he hits the flop, well, you lose (w/ no set). Re-raise him big pre-flop... All-in if he will call.
Posted Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:14 am GMT by MrDarling
I think you are ok here.
chances are 2 Aces are already out there. Big stack has probably a smaller pair or high connected suited..
By not raising preflop you are not showing much strength, BS got fed up from blinds attempt at stealing, original raiser will call anything with an A and BB might also have a A...
Of course, BS might have limped with A's , but again hard to tell without raising preflop.
So, what happened ?
Posted Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:06 am GMT by Jauron
| Skribbles wrote: | | Jauron wrote: |
I smooth called on the button because original raiser likes any Ace, but will not fold preflop |
This makes no sense at all. If he will play any ace and won't fold pre-flop calling is horrible. If he doesn't hit his ace on the flop, you get no more out of him. If he hits the flop, well, you lose (w/ no set). Re-raise him big pre-flop... All-in if he will call. |
How is calling horrible, I call to control the size of the pot and hide my hand. I have position on him this increases my options.
Who said he folds post flop if he doesn't connect?
Posted Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:49 am GMT by Skribbles
| Jauron wrote: |
How is calling horrible, I call to control the size of the pot and hide my hand. I have position on him this increases my options.
Who said he folds post flop if he doesn't connect? |
Calling allows other people into the pot behind you.
If the guy is playing Ax why would you want to control the pot size? JAM IT! You are a big favorite so why keep the pot small? Push your advantage.
So this guy is going to go broke on the flop if he misses? Or you may get a continuation bet out of him? Why not use your position advantage PRE-FLOP and get more chips in there AS A FAVORITE.
Posted Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:32 pm GMT by Jauron
Because he might also hold a hand like AK where I am not a big favorite. Just because a man plays any Ace doesn't mean he can't have a good one. In fact his preflop bet told me his Ace was probably legit here.
What puzzles me I guess is why force what could very possibley be a coin flip this early in the tourney when winning the pot won't do that much for me. I still have 700+ people to get through and I have 31x the BB.
Now if I was a player who can't fold queens post flop I would agree I need to force the action but I can. I'm also reluctant to give up the button so quickly when I hold a premium hand and stacks are deep. I don't slow play premium hand very often but I'm more inclined to do so with the button than any other time outside heads up.
I'm not saying pushing all in is a bad play, I'm just saying I have more than that as an option at this stage of the tourney. I decided to slow play it on the button...if you are one of those players who is against slow playing preflop then I'm not going to be able to change your mind. This wasn't as risky as I think you may think it is, at no point do I have to go broke on this hand.
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Anywho action got crazy behind me. I was split between my head and my gut. My head said since I played it slow I could now get away from it I feared the best I could be looking at is at least one player holding AK. All players involved after my call acted very quickly so I couldn't rule out I was already beat. Since I hadn't re-raised I felt I had all my options, but had very little information outside the fact they all seemed to like their hands very much.
My gut said I was ahead and should take this shot to quaddrouple up.
In the end I decided to pick a better spot and folded.
I was up against AK, AK and 88. Had I known they BOTH had AK it would have been an easy call, as it turns out the flop brought an Ace and I would not have improved.
Now as I watched the players after the hand I came to realize if I had pushed all in, I'd have been called by all 3, quickly in fact. You can make your own decision if that was a good thing or not.
Posted Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:40 pm GMT by Skribbles
| Jauron wrote: | | I smooth called on the button because original raiser likes any Ace |
| Quote: | | Because he might also hold a hand like AK where I am not a big favorite. Just because a man plays any Ace doesn't mean he can't have a good one. In fact his preflop bet told me his Ace was probably legit here |
You are now contradicting yourself. When you state the guy will play any ace, it is foolish IMO, not to re-raise him. There is only one Ax hand that is even close to you and you are still a favorite over it.
| Quote: | | What puzzles me I guess is why force what could very possibley be a coin flip this early in the tourney when winning the pot won't do that much for me. I still have 700+ people to get through and I have 31x the BB. |
The goal in a tourny is to amass chips. If you have a chance to get your chips in as a big favorite, why wouldn't you? Now lets not be results oriented because he did have AK (which you are still a favorite over). Everything I am basing my arguement on is you saying that he plays any Ace. Out of the 12 Ax hands he could have you dominate 11 of them and are a favorite over the other. Give me those odds in a tourny and I'll take it every time and have a much better chance of winning said tourny.
Posted Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:04 am GMT by Jauron
Meh this thread is way off track now...but we might as well continue. I said he liked any ace I did not say he raised with any ace. I can't believe the fact the action got crazy behind me didn't influence your decision that I should have gone all-in.
My main arguement is that on the button I have several more options, if you think that is horrible, so be it.
Posted Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:50 pm GMT by Skribbles
| Jauron wrote: | I can't believe the fact the action got crazy behind me didn't influence your decision that I should have gone all-in.
My main arguement is that on the button I have several more options, if you think that is horrible, so be it. |
The action behind is completely irrelevant. Your action before these players determines their actions (in most cases).
I never commented on what to do at the point you were at. I commented on where I thought you went wrong in this hand.
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