Posted Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:18 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
"What is the point of a preflop raise in O8. Many people have said that raising preflop in O8 is silly. I don't agree. The point of raising preflop is to get out the people who were going to call with marginal or bad hands. The problem is, the idiots don't know thats the point!
I raise preflop with AA3x and just after me a guy calls with 235k rainbow or something rediculous. He makes a full house since the flop came down 755 and no low came by river.
So, maybe all those people who say raising preflop in O8 are right. There is no sense raising nice cards when the idiots are going to call no matter what four cards they have."
Someone asked me this and I tried to answer as best I could with regards to not only my limited omaha knowledge, but also limited poker knowledge.
I responded:
Raising in any form of poker exsists for one main reason: Value.
When you limp with a hand such as AA23, more hands will limp after you, creating a big pot. AA23 will win much more frequently than other hands (your opponents cards), so therefore by raising, the equity of your hand increases.
Let's say AA23 will win 50% of the time VS 4 players. (This figure is just an example because I don't know the real number. Regardless though, any number will work for this example.) You're playing 2/4 O8. You raise 2xBB (big blind) from EP (2xBB becuase we're talking about FL), you then get 3 callers and for simplicity sake, the SB and BB are among those callers. The pot is now $16. Your equity (or amount of money in the pot that actually *belongs* to you) is +8$ (2BB). E = .5*P, where E =equity and P = pot.
Simple enough, right?
Now we go back to the original situation with AA23, but this time you decide to limp. One caller after you, and then SB completes and BB checks his option. The pot is now 8$, in which case +4$ is your equity. Every time you raise in this situation, your expected value is 4$ (or 1BB).
Conclusion for these two examples: raising is a 100% improvment from calling.
I would like to conclude with one more example of equity and raising. You're playing 2/4 O8 once again, and this time you're dealt AJ26 double suited (AJ in hearts) UTG. You opt to limp. There are 4 limpers behind you including the SB and BB.
The pot is now 10$.
Flop comes down Q(h)9(s)4(h). You effectively have the nut flush draw which is 9 outs. The probability of 1 of your 9 outs to hit by the time the river comes is ~38%. You were UTG so therefore first to act. You bet 2$ and the action around the table is as follows:
Raise (2$), Call, Fold, Fold.
The pot is now 18$, and you're faced with a decision. Call or Raise? It's 2$ to win 18$ so your pot odds are 9:1 so obviously folding is not an option.
Raise or call?
Raise. When you're in a multiway pot with a strong draw such as the one provided, this is when you use your pot equity as a decision factor.
E = .38*18
E = +$6.84 (1.71BB).
Even when you end up missing your draw and losing the hand, it's still a positive play to make as you'll be compensated by that loss when indeed you do hit and win.
When you're heads up, your equity is not as prominant because the odds of you winning the hand is directly correlated to the amount of money you should win. Your equity comes from any extra opponents in the hand who are chasing to an inferior draw or worse hand.
I told her that my info may not be 100% correct but I tried to get my point across as best I could.
If anyone can let me know of any mistakes I may have made or things I have left out it would be much appreciated.
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Posted Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:52 am GMT by TheSalche
I didn't read through your whole post (3:45 ... I'm tired).
Omaha is a lot about post flop play, I don't know a lot about 8/OB preflop odds, but I know that AAKK double suited is only something like a 60 - 70% favorite preflop heads-up against a decent hand, and those odds drop dramatically against multiple hands (Horse Race Concept).
Raising preflop gives you a few benefits
1) putting money in with a small edge
2) if you both miss the flop, a bet will win you the pot usually
In omaha, more than hold'em, if you mix up preflop raises and raise with hands like 4 middle connectors, pairs + double suited connectors, etc it confuses your opponents so they don't know what you have postflop.
If you're going to the river with hands that miss the flop in omaha a lot, and losing them a lot, you need to be folding more postflop, or at least slowing down a lot. Just because some schmuck hits a boat on you, doesn't mean you should call postflop because you're pissed about it.
Posted Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:49 pm GMT by supafrey
Mentioning Omaha hi theory in an equity thread for O8 is like discussing the merits of a queen's gambit in a backgammon forum.
Posted Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:20 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
How about the info that I wrote? Is it correct?
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