Posted Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:23 pm GMT by witt10s
Ok, tricky situation here early in a multi table S'n'G.
I will post this section by section
PokerStars Game #6681127896: Tournament #33974374, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/10/18 - 17:21:58 (ET)
Table '33974374 13' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: hardcider5 (1725 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: 2nd over (4210 in chips)
Seat 4: muleeeeee (1840 in chips)
Seat 5: papapreuss (1000 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: Villain 1 (1130 in chips)
Seat 7: Villain 2 (2810 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO (2725 in chips)
Seat 9: LuckECanuck (1000 in chips) is sitting out
muleeeeee: posts small blind 15
papapreuss: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 13mclean  
Villain 1: calls 30
papapreuss has returned
Villain 2: raises 120 to 150
hardcider5 has returned
fuzzy canuck is connected
HERO: raises 300 to 450
LuckECanuck: folds
hardcider5: folds
2nd over: folds
muleeeeee: folds
papapreuss: folds
Villain 1: raises 680 to 1130 and is all-in
Villain 2: calls 980
Hero: ?
Pot is roughly 2750 and 680 to me.
Ok so an UTG limper, followed by a good sized raise, followed by my raise, and then the limper goes all in after seeing this.
I know nothing about Villain 1's tendancies as he just joined the table.
Villain 2 has been playing semi-loose but also showing down very good hands.
all comments welcome of course but so far i guess I'd like to know the following:
1. Was my reraise preflop a good idea and if so what do you think of the size?
2. What do you think Villain 1 and 2 have?
3. I am getting like 4:1ish odds here to call. Is this good enough given what has already taken place?
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:56 pm GMT by jeffonline
Possibly any A or K will win, I am a 5-1 dog against AA or KK and a slight favourite against AK, the pots offering me 4-1, I have two Q left. Up against two players, there has been a raise and re-raise, it’s the tournament on he line. I am thinking it’s all-in or fold, all-in may get rid of Villain 2 but he will be all but pot committed and will possible call, so I’m still up against two. I going with your read on Villain 2 semi-loose, possibly got AK, AJs. Villain 1 could have anything, as he is short stacked and wants some chips. I conclude Villain 1 has a hand that he slow played AA or KK and has me beat Its only going to cost me $680 to find out, I think I am in front of Villain 2 and an all-in bet from me should see him call, I can lose Against Villain 1 but win the side pot against Villain 2 and come out the other end with over $3000 in chips. I am going all-in. I thought your reraise preflop was fine, you were in an early position and needed to thin out the players, I cant see that it would have made any difference in the circumstances except you may have been up against more players if you just called.
Posted Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:47 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Getting 4:1, even if one of them has Aces or Kings, you still have just about the right odds to call. Both players are playing as though they have big hands (the limp raise and then a smooth call vs. the all-in indicate either desperation or a big hand).
I'm not laying this down. You're getting huge odds, and these are just the types of calculated risks you need to win a tournament. I vote to re-raise all-in.
If you're lucky, both villains have AK. I think they both have good hands, but it's hard to say how good without knowing more about them. But that's a moot point getting 4-to-1 with more behind holding QQ.
The reraise and the amount preflop look good. I like.
Posted Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:51 pm GMT by Dat_Dude
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | I vote to re-raise all-in.
|
I second that. If you just call here and you miss the flop with one of the cards being a K or A, then you are probably folding to a bet by Villain2 (and with this much money in the pot, I don't see him just checking down, dead pot or not). This way, you get to see all 5 cards for your chance to hit your set.
Posted Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:59 am GMT by Jauron
Push, even if Villian one has the hands that can beat us it costs us so little to show down we're nearly forced to call. #2 could have a wide range of hands including any pair or AQ or AK. Since #2 is probable to push on the flop anyways we might as well see all 5 cards.
Had #2 pushed as well I'd consider folding it, but it's tough to want to get away from queens preflop with little information.
Posted Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:45 pm GMT by witt10s
I made the call instead of pushing or folding.
Here was my reasoning at the time (however flawed it may have been):
1. If an ace or king flops, I am most likely beat and am folding to any substantial bet with roughly 1600 in chips left to play with. I felt like I was playing well enough to come back in chips if it came down to it.
2. If an ace or king Does Not flop, I am not getting away from my hand and will bet/push on the flop hoping that my hand is best but still seeing all 5 cards for a set opportunity.
Is this bad NL strategy?
Here is what happened next:
Hero: calls 680
*** FLOP ***   
Villain 2: checks
Hero ?:
Posted Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:04 pm GMT by Nqon
Check... no need to get more money into the pot with that K allready there. He might be slowplaying you or might just want to play it out, as alot of players like doing that when another player is all in.
Posted Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:52 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
I bet all in here. The smooth call and then the check on the flop seems too much like weakness here. Who knows, you may be able to drive him out of the hand, or better yet, have him call down with an ace high. You're pretty much commited to calling any bet he throws at you now so you might as well do the pushing yourself.
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:36 pm GMT by MrDarling
I had a similar situation in a ring game.
Sitting with Q's in the blinds. EP raise 3XBB , 1 caller. I re-raise. both just call. Flop comes AKT rainbow. I bet, first better goes allin (SS) villain call (same stack as me). I decide to push. Still have 6 outs against an A or a K.. Tuns out both had AK and I didn't improve....
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:49 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
With 1600 left and around twice that in the pot, you can't fold even if an Ace or King comes, which is why I suggested putting it all in before the flop.
On the flop, you need to take his check as genuine weakness and put in the rest of your money. Although you may be beat for the main pot, you cannot risk giving a free card if you are ahead because there's simply too much money out there.
My guess is you probably lost this hand, but that's the breaks sometimes. If your mind was made up to call the all-in preflop, you're basically committing all your chips (I'm not folding after the flop getting 3-to-1+ against an all-in bet). I think the only logical play in a tournament here is to move all-in, or fold if you really think you can outplay the other guys when better situations come up (which is unlikely, not because you're not a good player, but because the rounds are too short and the blinds raise too sharply to sit back and wait for a better spot).
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:43 pm GMT by supafrey
Push or fold preflop.
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:40 pm GMT by staticRhymes
i put them both on pocket pairs, villian 1 on 99's and JJ's for villian 2. If villian 2 had KK's or AA's I think he would have pushed after villian 1 went all in to get get heads up. I think I push pre-flop given villian 2 just called.
Posted Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:43 pm GMT by witt10s
I checked, sticking to my plan if a King hit the flop. Here is the rest.
HERO: checks
*** TURN *** 
Villain 2: bets 510
HERO: folds
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain 1: shows   (high card Ace)
Villain 2: shows   (a pair of Queens)
Villain 2 collected 3435 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3435 | Rake 0
Board
Seat 2: hardcider5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 2nd over (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: muleeeeee (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: papapreuss (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Villain 1 showed and lost with high card Ace
Seat 7: Villain 2 showed and won (3435) with a pair of Queens
Seat 8: HERO folded on the Turn
Seat 9: LuckECanuck folded before Flop (didn't bet)
The unlikely QQ and a desperate A8 offsuit. I thought I was up against something a little more substantial, but I guess pushing preflop would have taken the guess work out of it and made for a much better outcome here.
Thanks for all contributions.
Posted Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:24 pm GMT by snoogins47
| supa wrote: | | Push or fold preflop. |
Folding preflop sucks. Calling only really sucks after you see how badly hero intends to play post flop. Regardless, pushing preflop is still way right, as is pushing on the flop.
Posted Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:24 pm GMT by supafrey
Folding preflop was in case hero has absolutely no faith in postflop skills.
Pushing is the only real option here.
You knew what i meant, snoggins.
___
For some basic reasons as to why pushing is, like, our only option here, read Harrington's rantings about the limited nature of sngs + mtts. Basically we only have so much time and so many hands to collect alot of chips before the blinds eat us up - we must make as much as we possibly can with our premium hands and if we're beat preflop ggnorekthxbye who cares. We do have 500 buyins for our tourneys like we're supposed to, right?
|
|
