Ok, I need some strategy ideas |
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Posted Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:16 am GMT by JMX360
This friend I play poker with almost every weekend, is an extremely loose player. He doesn't raise much, but instead, he calls literally any two cards pre-flop, even with a small raise, without a decent sized chip stack. In fact, during our cash games, he won't even look at his cards pre-flop and he would call. No matter what the bet is (well, maybe except for an all-in or something), he will call with any kind of draw (flush, open-ended, gutshot), and manage to hit it on the turn or the river with his disgusting luck. I suppose I could relate his style to Jamie Gold, except even more loose, and sick luck.
I'm wondering if any of you have an effective strategy against a player like this. Should I play aggressive over him? Or should I just overbet the pot with a monster? Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated.
On a side note: This guy won $400 at a $1/2 NL game the other night mainly because of a mistake that he got lucky on. It was A  Q for him against K-K to the flop. It was rags, but my friend went ahead and bet at it. K-K raised, and my friend went all-in, only to have K-K call a stone-cold bluff.....except my friend caught running diamonds to take down a $250 or so pot. Disgusting.
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Posted Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:28 pm GMT by shorn7
In the long run, this guy should be easy pickings. Obviously you should completely abandon bluffing when he is in the pot since he will call. I would tend to size my bets a bit larger against him as well so that if/when he makes his bad calls, he isn't getting propoer odds. Also, with a big made hand, you might wait until the turn to put him to the test. That way, you can avoid committing too much on draw boards on the flop until there is only 1 card to come.
By and large though, he is one of the best types of players to sit down with. He will pay you off when you have a hand and is a passive calling station the rest of the time. Don't let his run of good fortune get to you...stick with it and take all his $$ over time.
Posted Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:04 pm GMT by MasterMike
Be careful with guys like him, i have a few like that at my game.
Just wait for your hand (dont get frustrated a play rags), it doesnt have to be a monster, so typically TP and a good kicker will win it for you. You will take your bad beats from him, thats a fact, but try to get him out if you do have only a pair.
Try to get a read on him for when you think he is chasing. Typically, its when they call quickly that they are on some sort of draw.
It seems like pots can get rather large, so bet when you are confident in your hand.
Watch out for the suits on the flop, and if there is a rainbow flop and you hit top pair, push him around. If two of the same suit come on the flop, and the 3rd doesnt come, dont be all that afraid to call if he bets on the river, but be careful and wait till you have a read on him or can see him get caught on a bluff in similar situations. Now, i dont know exactly how this guy plays, he could just call a lot and not bet, but that probably isnt the case so be patient.
Also watch out for the connecting cards. All of these things you probably know, but you have to realize, he is getting the same cards as you. normally, (and i say normally) he will not be luckier than you.
All of these things i have used against a guy who went from being a huge aggressor, to a frustrated player. Although in the games as a whole, i have been down two months or so, against this guy, i have been able to dominate him. I have been able to wear him down and probably win about 75% of the hands im with him in that go longer than the flop.
Just be patient and let him know that you have cards. Dont bluff with him.. yet. Really try to observe him when hes not playing you as you can see what he is calling with to the river. Dont try to play high cards too much just because you think he is bluffing, he may just be waiting to get lucky with his J 5 on the river and actually hit. Maybe down the road, but not now.
This stuff is really just common logic and may not be completely right, but after playing this guy using this tactic for the past 2 months or so, i have been consistently winning off him.
Main thing is to be patient. Its hard a lot of times because you just wonder "What the f*ck?", but after a while, you should be able to win off that guy.
Posted Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:20 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Position is critical against calling stations. You can check behind and get a lot of free cards when you want them. Playing marginal hands OOP suck against those types though.
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:56 am GMT by JMX360
Thanks for the input guys.
This guy plays such an erratic combination of cards, and he plays top pair as if it's the nuts, regardless of his kicker, or he could flop any kind of two pair at any time. Chances are, he will be on some kind of draw half the time.
So, based upon what you guys have posted, I think I'll follow this strategy:
-Don't slow-play monster hands; make value bets. Value bet the flop, and if called, make a monster bet on the turn.
-With a high pocket pair (AA, KK), raise massively before the flop to try and drive him out.
He's also one of those guys (like many other people) who looks back at their cards when there's 3 suited cards on the flop.
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:28 pm GMT by supafrey
Why would you want to drive someone out when you have the best starting cards in the game.
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:03 pm GMT by JMX360
| supa wrote: | | Why would you want to drive someone out when you have the best starting cards in the game. |
As I said earlier, this guy plays really strange cards (5-3s, 3-4o, 10-5o, etc.), so I don't want him seeing a flop with those kinds of starting hands. If he hits bottom two pair with 5-10o or something, there will be no way of me knowing with a flop like J-10-5.
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:54 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
If he calls with "anything," there is no way to know if he's hit anything ever, so I don't agree with your reasoning.
The point of raising big with a high pair is NOT (for like the 800th time) to "drive people out." It is to make a raise for value. Every time your opponent(s) call any bet before the flop when you have Aces, you have made money. How much money you make depends on how deep the stacks are and how well you play after the flop.
Seriously, calling stations are the easiest clowns in the world to beat. If you went all-in and got him to call every time you flopped top pair, this guy would go broke in a week or less--but I doubt he's really that loose. But your basic instinct on how to beat him is correct. Just bet your hands for value and don't run any bluffs.
A lot of people get scared of these folks because they could "have anything." But the fact is, they usually don't. It's a mathematical fact. All of your hands are stronger than they appear against players like this, and unlike a loose-aggressive player (who will bluff you off many hands you would otherwise win), a calling station will not usually win except off the merit of his hands, which won't happen very often.
You're frustrated because it seems like he "always" hits his cards. Well, that's tough shit. He doesn't. No one does, because no one is consistently "lucky" in the big situations.
My advice is, if he lets you in cheaply, play as many pots with him as possible, because when you make a hand (especially a well concealed monster), he'll pay you off, and when you don't make a hand, you can usually get free cards and avoid losing very much.
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:25 pm GMT by supafrey
The reason people don't play bad hands is not because they look ugly - they're less likely to win.
The reason that people play good hands isn't because they look nice -
they're more likely to win.
When you're more likely to win, and you put a dollar into a pot, you're making more money than someone that's calling that dollar and is less likely to win.
With the best hand in the game, you're most likely to win.
With the worst hand in the game, you're least likely to win.
Everything in between is a shade of gray in between most likely and least likely to make money.
When you have the best hand, it's best to put in the most amount of money.
When you have the worst hand, it's best to put in as little money as possible.
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