Posted Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:26 pm GMT by Moon_Child
I don't think I have ever been successful in managing a bankroll. I would always have to cash out, thus never being able to move up from my usual stakes NL50. Basically what I need help with is... How do I manage my swings? Usually I would be able to play normally, winning a few pots here and there... busting out once or twice, but sometimes I would hit these outta the blue losing streaks. I would ofcourse limit my self to losing a certain amount for the day and give it a shot tommorow, but usually it would just being a losing day after a losing day until i have no choice but to cash out.
So do I continue to keep my bankroll, not cash out and play through it? or take a few days break and try again? What I usually do is just move sites and try to start off fresh again. I can't keep a bankroll and these bad beats continue to happen. TIPS??? HELP??? SUGGESTIONS???
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Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:12 am GMT by MrDarling
Your BR should be big enough that you'd survive those bad beats easily.
This is why it is recommended to have 20X Buyin .
If you set on playing poker, I say stick to one site. Keep a decent BR and play within it!
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:36 am GMT by Moon_Child
do I ever cash out? when should I cash out
and If i have 20x the BB, how much should i limit myself to losing?
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:32 am GMT by fiezk
It doesn't really matter where you keep your bankroll, but you really should have at least 20 buy ins dedicated as 'poker money'.
As for cashing out, I think it's a good idea to have some kind of a plan. Maybe cash out 30% of your winnings at the end of each month, invest 50% in your BR, and use 20% to take shots at high risk plays such as MTT's and higher stakes. That way you keep a steady growth, provided you're winning that month, and you will get to have some fun with some of your winnings.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:32 am GMT by MrDarling
Don't limit losing, limit mistakes.
If you lose a full buying flopping the nut str8 and being out drawn by a guy with a better str8, a boat or a flush - this is not a mistake. Especially not if you made him pay to draw.
However if you lose a full buyin because you decided to call an allin on the river with a pair on a flush / str8 draw - then its a mistake.
If you want to go up in levels, don't cash out. However, its not really important where you keep your BR (if you keep it on the site you play, or on neteller or in your bank) as long as you always have access to that money for poker..
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:26 am GMT by Oasis
| Moon_Child wrote: | | If i have 20x the BB, how much should i limit myself to losing? |
20x the buy-in.
Personally, I like to have about 30-40 buy-ins for my sit n goes, and at least 25-30 for cash games.
Read all of these:
http://www.pocketfives.com/63D83453-C054-479F-A08A-90E5488E083B.aspx#3
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:10 pm GMT by Moon_Child
thanks for the link, hopefully this will help me out a bit... i really need to learn to handle my swings, it seems like once a losing streak hits, i never recover from it.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:21 pm GMT by Soup_dog
| Moon_Child wrote: | | thanks for the link, hopefully this will help me out a bit... i really need to learn to handle my swings, it seems like once a losing streak hits, i never recover from it. |
Exactly the same situation I have. I have won literlly a couple thousand dollars over the last three years but just end up giving it all back.
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:33 am GMT by Moon_Child
i do keep track of my poker play and it seems like i make a few hundred bucks a year... so i have played a total of 2 years of poker and my track tells me, i am up about 1400 CAD in 05, 900 CAD in 06... not to mention my bigg losses in live poker which is probably 2 grand. overall, i think i am a broke even player. sometimes its like a waste of time. i would like a huge payday from a MTT win, but i can't sit on my computer for more than an hour. so i need to manage a bankroll if i ever want to be successful.
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:37 am GMT by rodders
iv really learnt from previous mistakes of b/r managment. i now have a healthy bankroll of $1350 and am playing the £16 turbos on stars giving me around 85 buy ins,
and doing well in them, with this amount of buy ins i dont feel pressured in any way and can take the swings in variance easily. have set myself a target of $1800 before i move up a level. then dropping back down if i hit $1500.
i suppose i could move up now but i seem to be enjoying my poker more now i can relax and not worry too much about variance, this in turn helps your play alot.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:34 pm GMT by Smudge
Bankroll management is my big thing at the moment. I have $60 in my UB account which may not seem very much but I have built it from nothing, I dont have a credit card and being outside of Europe or the US had limited other ways of getting money into my account so I built it by winning ultimate points in freerolls and using them to enter tournies until I had enough to stop playing the freerolls. Its a good amount considering I had nothing three months ago but it is also a fragile amount and im trying to make myself not be paralysed by fear of loosing it all and having to go back to freerolls lol. I set very strict loosing limits for this reason, I only play 1/2 cent tables and $1 sngs. I allow myself treats when I reach milestone figures, like a $5 sng when I reached $50. Now I am starting to think about what figures I want to reach before moving up my levels. If the next level from 1/2 cent games is 5/10 does that mean I should have five times the br I do now before I think about making the move or do I have to take the plunge of making the move to keep my upward progress moving? The sit n goes are not in question at the moment I need a considerably bigger br before I can even think about playing regular $5 sit n goes.
Its not much but its a start and after a few years of having money go in and out of my accounts without to much concern its forcing me to find a level of discipline that is not usual for me and my poker is better for it.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:45 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Imagine you are playing me in a dice game, in which you have an edge against me.
If you throw a 6, you win nomatter what.
If I throw a 6, I win as long you don't throw a 6.
If we roll anything but a 6, we re-roll untill one or both of us hit a 6.
Your added win chance compared to be represents your edge in this simple gambling game, just a poker skill will add an edge to your poker game.
Now, nomatter what stakes you want to play, I can play them (I in effect in this example represent the combined opponents you can find at the online poker tables), you on the other hand have a 1000$ to play for.
Per roll you have 6/36 chance of winning, I have a 5/36 chance of winning.
Now imagine playing this game for and imagine the probably outcomes:
1000$ a throw.
500$ a throw.
50$ a throw.
I won't go into the maths as a.) I'm not really a math on paper guy b.) The conclusion should be obvious.
Imagine now a typical poker player who plays way over his bankroll. He might take a shot at the 1000$ wager, and maybe win it. As he wins he steps up in stakes and wagers 2000$ instead.
Do you see what playing above your bankroll does? In effect you are almost completely removing the effect of your edge's ability to gain any long-term profit because the risk of ruin when playing underbankrolled is so great.
So the 'common' mistake in poker is threefold...overestimating the size of an edge, underestimating the risk of ruin and overestimating (hugely) the effect of 'an edge' over the short term. That last one is probably the biggest..alot players have a tendency to count the wins as skill and the losses as unlikely, when the truth is that losing is part of poker.
And it is actually quite sad, because there are probably quite a few good poker players who unwittingly play horribly because they always play underbankrolled (not counting purely recreational players, even if these might also be good they understandably don't think of the game like we do).
So, summary: Playing underbankrolled is the worst thing you can do as a serious pokerplayer as any skill you might have will be next to worthless in the long term.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:53 am GMT by Moon_Child
very interesting, i guess a bankroll is something i must have since i don't think i could handle the swings of a losing sessions without one.
hopefully by the beginning of 2007 i can deposit atleast 30 buys in for nl50 and work my way up for the year.
sometimes poker is such a hard game.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:29 am GMT by gumbie
You don't need anywhere near 30 buy ins for nl50.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:47 am GMT by Moon_Child
well... i want atleast 20 buy ins, maybe play 10 dollar sngs on the weekends when i have more time.
Posted Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:49 am GMT by JMX360
I mainly play in tournaments, but I've had similar problems with BR management (although maybe not so much anymore?) Anyways, I was wondering what percent of your bankroll should be spent on a buy-in for a tournament? 5%? 1%?
I've turned $1.80 into $68 over the past few weeks, and I definitely do not want to blow it.
Posted Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:49 am GMT by Johny
A general guideline for MTTs is having 100 buy-ins.
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