Are European Players Fishier than Americans? |
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Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:34 pm GMT by lwestatbus
This is a tough post to make without being insulting, which is not my intent. However, I've noticed that my loosest tables have been populated by large numbers of Europeans and I have made a LOT of money on them.
I've noticed that these tables tend to have two common characteristics:
1. Many, many more players seeing the flop and often the turn
2. At least one or more players willing to massively overplay top pair or sometimes any pair at all. Many times these people will play a limit hand as if it was no limit and they are raising all in when, in fact, it is limit and there is NO WAY anyone with any hand at all is going to leave for one or even two more bets given the money already in the pot.
I read in a post many months back that the best times to play are Friday and Saturday nights when players have been drinking heavily. For me this now translates as Friday and Saturday starting around 11:00 AM Eastern time. I also find early mornings Saturday to be very profitable as the table is almost entirely populated by Europeans and I see a lot of the behavior described above.
These observations are obviously gross generalizations and don't apply to every European or to every American (in reverse). I have encountered many individual examples of solid play from European opponents and have struck up a pretty nice friendship with a very good Irish player. But, the fact remains that I see bigger pots and more optomistic opponents at a heavily European table than otherwise.
Does anyone else have similar experiences? Anyone want to offer up an explanation?
Again, I absolutely do not intend to be insulting with this post. Just trying to make sense of poker and the world.
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Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:40 pm GMT by kingetje
Every time im at a table, and i see the most retarded thing happen, i look for their location and 90% of the time they are from the UK 
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:04 pm GMT by supafrey
caro got a lot of flak for including a "racial breakdown" of live opponents and their styles of play at casinos. While some people disagreed with his generalizations, other poker pros and semi-pros alike have jumped to his defense. Be it cultural, genetic (errr...) or economic reasons - which it is is beyond me - there seem to be discrepancies with how different races play the game, in my opinion.
Turks gamble. Scandi's are smart, yet agressive. Young americans (males) tend to think that being TAG deserves them the win.
Better or worse though? I don't know. I don't really know whether those kind of arbitrary "good/bad" generalizations are accurate or useful for us. Perhaps there are different styles of play - some of which you may be better at capitalizing against because of your own individual way of thinking/betting.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:08 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Depends where. Norway used to have a big whaling industry, so I'd say yeah there.
For the most part, a lot of the countries are land-locked, so generally, no.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:13 pm GMT by supafrey
Whales are mammuls, moran.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:14 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Presumably, they fish too.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:58 pm GMT by tame_deuces
I helped catch a near 40 pound atlantic cod once, with nothing but string, bait and hook. And some damn good gloves.
And I once was at a barbeque somewhere in the middle of here:
And ate meat from one of these:
Which our ship had helped catch the day before (the meat has to soak in vinegar for atleast a day or so). But as said, they're mammals, not fish.
So we're pretty fishy.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:23 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
I'm not offended in any way by the comments but I have to say, I find the idea totally absurd.
It's a matter of numbers, N. America has approx. 10 x as many players, even if we generously allow 50% of these to be winning players, that still means 5 times as many donks as there are players in Europe. So even if every player in Europe was a donk, there would still be 5 times as many American donks.
Pretty simple matter of numbers really, it stands to reason that there will be more fish in N. America.
Maybe you just notice it more cos they're not one of you kinda thing?
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:29 pm GMT by supafrey
he's not talking about sheer numbers.. more of a % of type thing.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:30 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
If I had to venture a guess as to why this is the case, it would be the time differential. Presumably, if you play later at night and are tired, your play will suffer. If you're an American playing during the day, any europeans you play, will be playing at night, therefore at a natural disadvantage to you.
I think that is a good explination for most players. The majority of players are losing players, and any impairment will only make their losses that much greater.
Its kinda sad to think about really, with a 5% rake on every hand, you actually have to be pretty damn comparatively good to actually win money.
Posted Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:39 pm GMT by khaosanroad
i have to agree on this. I had my best sessions playing on Party during the middle of the day(night in Europe). I did notice that the money was coming from the Germans, French and Eastern Europeans.
P.S. I'm one of those TAG male Americans that expect to win.
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:09 am GMT by UrAteUp
I agree with khaosanroad as well. It you play at times when it is night for players in other countries you can often find them losing money.
If I had to rank it by country..well let me just say I love the Brits...them blokes have helped my bankroll many a time. More then anyone though I got to hand it to Islamic countries. You find an Isreali on late and your almost assured they will help build your bankroll.
Now I in no way am trying to sound racist here. I am just pointing out my findings on this subject.
On a side note...I have to say those Scots are the funnest to win off of. Every time I beat a Scottsman I just hear the bagpipes playing for me...
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:27 pm GMT by groton
The British are all decent players compared to the rest of Europe Webby 
were not talking about you and Gino and the rest
were talking about the Euro's who all play crazy Lag and are realy crazy.
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:13 pm GMT by Sid Lambert
I dunno in general, but I can talk about my recent visit to the gutshot in london...across 3 tables, we all thought that the other players limped in way too much...maybe it was just that poker club, i dunno...
none of placed, we each lost a race or two I believe...blinds went up fairly quickly...
Posted Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:44 pm GMT by lwestatbus
| wEbMaStEr wrote: | | I'm not offended in any way by the comments but I have to say, I find the idea totally absurd. |
| Sid Lambert wrote: | | we all thought that the other players limped in way too much |
I've been paying closer attention and have had the chance to play in the middle of the day U.S. Eastern Time and continue to see the behavior I posted originally. There may or may not be an aggressive player or two at a heavily European table but the number of players seeing the flop is just flat higher if the table is 50% or more European.
I aggree with Webby that the idea is absurd on the face of it but my observations (unscientific though they may be) are consistent. Many, many more players seeing the flop and turn and lots of chasers. Top pair is a vulnerable hand because so many people will chase that someone is likely to get lucky. (This is limit so you can't try to force them out early with a big raise.)
I've driven most of my life in the US but have lived (and driven) for three years in Europe. The driving there is different--there's no getting away from it--and it varies by country.
This would be an interesting study. Not my field of expertise but it must be someone's. Deuces, aren't you a Psychologist?
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