How To Handle Bluffers - Help! |
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Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:45 am GMT by Acquisitioner
Maybe someone can explain the math to me. You have a guy who raises before every flop, and bets after every flop. It doesn't seem to matter what he has in his hand. Heads up, he kills me every time.
Why? Because I do what the books tell me to do against a bluffer: play tight, bet what you have, and don't chase hands hoping to nail him. The problem with this is, in a heads up situation he's going to win every time using this strategy. If I see the flop and I don't have a pair or a good draw, he bets and I fold. If I do have something worth calling or betting, he knows he's beat and cuts his losses. In between, he steals all the blinds and wins all the flops.
So I'll do things like see him all the way to the river with a pair against two overcards on the board, and it seems like he always has me beat. After a while, I start throwing away the same hands, but with a sneaking suspicion I'm laying down the best cards. I try to tell myself that maybe I'm just having a bad night, but this happens way too often to be a coincidence.
There has to be a strategy for this. What am I doing wrong?
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Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:56 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
You're playing the definition of weak-tight, unfortunately.
In a full ring game with relatively small stacks, the correct strategy is simply to wait for a good hand and strike back. Well, that's partly correct anyway.
In many cases though, you should loosen your game considerably against players who bluff too much. The reason is as follows: all of your hands will be stronger than they appear against a frequent bluffer. You need to re-raise a LOT heads-up with pairs and big cards before the flop, and definitely raise top pair or better on the flop until he slows down (you must also often raise with second pair against such a player).
The fact is, you're simply not giving action unless you have a hand, and he knows when you do. You need to introduce deception into the equation and start bluffing back. It's hard to learn, but that's what Poker really is.
In a good heads-up game, you have to take all the following into account:
1. What do I have?
2. What do I think my opponent has?
3. What does my opponent think I have?
4. What does my opponent think I think he has...
...add a few more levels...
8. What are the stack sizes in relation to each other and the pot sizes?
9. What is the psychological status of my opponent?
10. What does my opponent think my psychological status is?
11. Has he bluffed a lot lately? Will he keep doing it?
12. Does he know I've been bluffing a lot lately? Should I alter my strategy?
13. What are my pot odds/implied odds like?
....etc etc etc....
Playing against this guy will not be easy, but it is probably the best chance you have to improve your bluffing, reading, and overall Poker skills.
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:07 pm GMT by lwestatbus
This is a very interesting post.
You did not say whether you are h/u because you are sitting down at 2-player tables, at a tourny or SnG tourny where you survived to end up h/u, or at a ring game that has just had the other seven or eight players evaporate. I think that the response is really, really dependent on this circumstance.
I don't play short handed tables, let alone h/u, for exactly the reasons you described. So I assume that you are not deliberately sitting down to play h/u. If you are, my advice is to stop  .
If you find yourself in a ring game that evaporates down to h/u, then my advice is to leave . So far, nothing too profound.
On h/u at the end of a tourny, I have surprised myself by finding that I have way more success than I'd have thought in NL SnG tournys. (Got into them when I discovered lots of unused player points that were going to evaporate.) I've made it to h/u several times and generally do well there. Won 2 of last 4 and in the 2 losses I had best hand all in but got sucked out on. So much for my credentials, such as they are.
I used to fence in college and I find that my h/u play is like fencing an excellent opponent that I have been studying during the off times during the match. You set up situations and study reactions and attempt to set up the environment for the perfect trap. Know your own automatic or routine reactions and use those to set up the situation where you can count on your opponent counting on your reaction and then shove it down his throat. I've had the whole SnG to get a feel for his style (and know he is doing the same on me).
I believe that in h/u the absolute key is to avoid predictability. And to recognize that this will cost you some chips. Try to get your arms around the concept of the information bet. This is a really tough concept to grasp emotionally for a mathematical player but building a picture, both for you and for the opponent is much, much more important h/u or short handed.
I don't think that this is as helpful as I'd thought it would be. And it sure isn't based on a lot of experience. But I also feel really, really comfortable with the advice because I am so very comfortable h/u after a SnG--and I would never choose to play a 2-player table.
Good luck.
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:04 pm GMT by Acquisitioner
You guys are superb. Thank you very much for the well-thought out replies, and for taking the time to put them into words.
For the record, Iwestatbus, this was a ring game that evaporated down to heads-up play.
Last night was like being raped. I was playing .25/.50 at a 6-Up table and doing fairly well (up about $9.00). One by one the others began to drop out and I was left alone with this guy, who I had notes on because he's done this to me before. In about 10 minutes he shaved $10 off my account. Hand after hand I got nothing in the hole and nothing on the flop, and he cut me off from chasing down the turn and river each time. I walked away from the table wishing I had never heard of the game.
I get the impression that playing heads-up requires a different set of skills that I'm not quite good enough yet to put into play, and that it takes experience, bankroll and an excellent ability to read your opponent to thrive in this environment. I get the impression these are qualities that might be a few years down the road for a novice llike me.
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:54 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Playing head's up at fairly low stakes is rarely worth it because of the rake. You'll need a really bad player to make it worth it in my experience.
HU play is completely different from playing with more players, even from playing with 3 players doesn't compare properly in the least. Having strategies in HU play in the same manner we might play a little 'robotic' with more players around the table is bad, even horrible players tend to adjust quickly in HU play. You'll have to see how your opponent plays and then (hopefully) adjust in accordingly in a good manner.
And losing 10 bucks in 0.25/0.50 game is a minimal loss. Stuff like that could happen even if he was blind and you were the best poker player in the world.
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:33 pm GMT by lwestatbus
Welcome to the Forum, by the way.
This is a tough circumstance because you KNOW that this guy is bullying you with crappola. You know that John Wayne, James Bond, or Annie Duke would take this bozo out behind the woodshed and tear him a new one. And leaving is equal to quitting, taking your ball and going home, or renouncing your manhood.
The reality is (as you have discovered), that this guy will keep doing the same thing to you until you change something. And the easiest thing to change is the table where you are playing. Later on we may both learn how to play and like heads up but we can do that on our own schedules.
It is absolutely 100% OK to say, "I know what you are doing and I don't need to play here." (You don't need to say it to him, of course.)
By the way, these bozos will show up in full table games (you said this table started as 6-handed??). They can be extremely profitable with other players that will go along with his play by calling or pushing back with marginal hands. You can take down some large pots when you wait for those premium hands and they come through for you.
Good luck.
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