Playing lowish suited connectors |
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Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:23 am GMT by MrDarling
I used to fold those preflop, or to any raise, but since reading Super System 1 I now call one normal raise with them. Telling my self I'm folding unless I hit the flop hard. (usually, if I hit it soft, ie TP, I might take a stab at it)
Then this happen :
Full Tilt Poker Game #1179016393: Table Boulder - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:17:34 ET - 2006/11/01
Seat 1: I always lie eh ($12.10)
Seat 2: Heavy1 ($9.10)
Seat 3: FJML78 ($7.60)
Seat 4: mk3veedub ($5)
Seat 5: tripBthreat ($3.70)
Seat 6: NE 2 Cards AA ($10.05)
Seat 7: SOSL ($10.15)
Seat 8: MrDarling ($5.70)
Seat 9: eye 1der ($17.25)
FJML78 posts the small blind of $0.05
mk3veedub posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrDarling  
tripBthreat calls $0.10
NE 2 Cards AA folds
SOSL folds
MrDarling calls $0.10
eye 1der raises to $0.40
I always lie eh folds
Heavy1 folds
FJML78 folds
mk3veedub folds
tripBthreat has 15 seconds left to act
tripBthreat folds
MrDarling calls $0.30
I looked at his stack and decided if I do hit, I can double up.
Am I a donk or is this a right play?
Not to be result oriented but still....
*** FLOP ***   
MrDarling checks
eye 1der bets $1
MrDarling raises to $2.50
eye 1der raises to $16.85, and is all in
MrDarling calls $2.80, and is all in
eye 1der shows  
MrDarling shows
Uncalled bet of $11.55 returned to eye 1der
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
eye 1der shows two pair, Queens and Tens
MrDarling shows a full house, Tens full of Eights
MrDarling wins the pot ($10.50) with a full house, Tens full of Eights
MrDarling: sorry
After this hand he told me to keep calling raises with 8T and I said I will 
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Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:50 am GMT by jimmer
mmmm, i can see what you're saying, but I don't think you've chosen the best example to demonstrate your point. In this case, i think you got lucky.
I like to limp in late position with these type of hands. But calling a preflop raise with this hand IMO is poor. I haven't read SS1, but if this is the type of info in the book, I think i won't bother.
The other guys right. If you continue to call a raise with those type of hands, you're gonna be palying with a big negitive expectation.
Howoften do you play these type of hands????
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:51 am GMT by UrAteUp
I can see playing these types of hands even into a raised pot, but only if I have position. If you miss the flop though your almost destined to have to lay these types of hands down post flop.
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:19 am GMT by MrDarling
| jimmer wrote: | ...The other guys right. If you continue to call a raise with those type of hands, you're gonna be palying with a big negitive expectation.
Howoften do you play these type of hands???? |
Only now just started to call raises with this types of hand.
But I see the point, say you have a small pair - would you fold it to a small raise? You shouldn't. But your chances of improving are as big as with small connectors (I think)
Its all about risking a little in the attempt to win a lot.
Playing these hands to a raise I am not trying to steal the or win a small pot, I'm hoping to catch big and win a hugh pot.
And if my opp is weak I might steal it from him after all.
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:30 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Limping with these hands early is bad because more often than not you're playing a drawing hand OOP, one of the hardest skills to develop in NL (IMO).
Limp with them late. Call raises with them late. Don't limp early and then get stuck playing against a raiser in a HU pot OOP.
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:40 am GMT by Jauron
Against some players who will play a big PP very strongly on most flops I will see flops with suited connectors or one gappers because I have a chance to double up vs them.
Normally however I don't like them in a heads up pot to a guy raising unless there are only two of us playing.
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:26 pm GMT by tame_deuces
I'll often raise with them if I'm the first person into the pot, and I'll very often call raises with them in position, sometimes also re-raise. I'll also often raise limpers with them. I don't really care too much if the pot is going to be multiway or not . It's NL...it isn't really dreadfully important what hand we have before the flop as long as it got a good number of ways of becoming a strong hand.
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:46 pm GMT by khaosanroad
I actually prefer to play suited connectors against an early raiser expecially if I get him heads up. You're more likely to realize your implied odds against a player who is showing a willingness to put money in the pot.
Unless your villain is known to open raise suited connectors I think you played that hand just fine.
You were getting 14 to 1 on your preflop call if you hit and double up.
If you only had one pair I would have folded it preflop being OOP.
Posted Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:55 pm GMT by Gunslinger
| MrDarling wrote: | | But I see the point, say you have a small pair - would you fold it to a small raise? You shouldn't. But your chances of improving are as big as with small connectors (I think) |
Your chances of hitting a set on the flop with a pocket pair are about the same as hitting a flush or straight draw with a suited connector; about 8:1. The main difference being in the former you flop a set and in the latter you flop a draw. You don't know yet what price you will have to pay for your draw, so your pre-flop implied odds are not the same. This is why position is so important with SCs.
Posted Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:42 pm GMT by TheSalche
You need position with this hand, consider the two cases:
a. you hit a big hand, position will allow you to control the pot
b. you hit a drawing hand (more likely), again you can control the pot size
if you play this hand out of position and try for a check/raise you will see folds more often than calls
Posted Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:42 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Can checkraise draws tho, maybe even on turn if feeling frisk...hope for some folds pending on opposition. That's usually effective.
Posted Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:44 pm GMT by TheSalche
| tame_deuces wrote: | | Can checkraise draws tho, maybe even on turn if feeling frisk...hope for some folds pending on opposition. That's usually effective. |
the problem with that is when your opponent has a hand, they'll re-raise you AI and you're forced to call it because of pot odds ...
Posted Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:32 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
Um, its ok to play hands like this, but you have to have one thing. MORE MONEY ON THE TABLE. You arent gonna hit the flop hard that often, and even if you do, you wont always get the double up you're looking for. You really need to have greater implied odds than 14-1 to make this play worth it.
If you're gonna play as a short stack, only play hands with good showdown value.
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:17 am GMT by tame_deuces
| TheSalche wrote: | | tame_deuces wrote: | | Can checkraise draws tho, maybe even on turn if feeling frisk...hope for some folds pending on opposition. That's usually effective. |
the problem with that is when your opponent has a hand, they'll re-raise you AI and you're forced to call it because of pot odds ... |
Avoiding to semi-bluff/bluff on the account that someone may have a hand is no good. Chose your battles and go wild. Sometimes being aggressive with draws is a key element in NL play.
If some nit still raises you even though the board looked benign...well you took a good shot, but this time he liked his hand, life sucks. If you got pot odds..call. That someone(tm) had a hand doesn't mean the idea was wrong to begin with, just like betting with TPTK isn't wrong just because someone hit his flush on the river.
The idea of semibluffing is that they don't have to fold as often as one a pure bluff for it to be profitable, there will ofcourse always come times when they don't fold, we're just playing probabilities
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