Posted Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:54 am GMT by aaronw
This may contain some spoilers!
For anyone that watched the final table. If you haven't seen it yet, I suggest you find it somewhere on the Internet and download it. It was a great table filled with great players. One of the only problems with it was that they only had Hold'em instead of the other games. For a HORSE event, they should have all the games.
Anyway, there was a hand where Doyle raised UTG with QQ. Chip smooth called UTG+1 with KK. Singer called on the button with 66. The flop comes 7-3-2 rainbow. Doyle bets about 3/4 of the pot (I believe). Chip mini-raises. Singer folds his sixes on the button. Doyle mucks his QQ. While he was mucking his cards, one of the queens flipped over and someone innocently asked what he had and Bloch said it had to be an Ace because there was no way he was folding QQ there.
Anyway, what do you guys think about that laydown? It was one of the best I have ever seen. These guys have been playing together for over 30 years so they know how each other plays. That has to be one of the best flops for QQ and he folds it after just a mini-raise.
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:27 pm GMT by Gunslinger
I agree, an amazing laydown. No way most people would be able to fold there. I'm pretty sure Singer didn't flop a set though....
Posted Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:40 pm GMT by aaronw
| Gunslinger wrote: | | I agree, an amazing laydown. No way most people would be able to fold there. I'm pretty sure Singer didn't flop a set though.... |
Thats true. My bad. The flop was 7-3-2 then? Singer didn't flop a set. Whoops! The flop was a few low cards though like 7-3-2, 7-4-2 (something like that)
Posted Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:08 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
It's only a good flop for QQ in that no overcards came. Other than that, it's actually not that great of a flop, and do you really want to play one pair, out of position, against a guy who smooth called an EP raise from an almost equally crappy position when he makes such an enticing raise on such a raggy flop? That certainly sets off alarm bells in my head (although I'm not sure if I'm mucking QQ). Players as good as Brunson don't get addicted to pretty overpairs when the evidence compels them to think there's more than a slight chance they might be beat.
Phenomenal laydown. One that probably only the top 1% of all NL players could make.
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:28 am GMT by Dat_Dude
I have that Final Table on my Tivo and have watched that hand a few times. It was an incredible laydown by Doyle. I don't think Doyle had him on KK or AA, but had him on the lower pairs that hit the flop. Either way, like Diamond said, nobody but the absolute upper echelon of NL players would make that laydown.
Not even 10 hands later (on the TV) there was another great laydown that not a lot of NL players make. Ivey had AKsuited and didn't even want to see a flop when he was reraised by Reese when he was holding the Rockets. Ivey had to have known Reese was holding Aces or Kings, otherwise why wouldnt you call to see a flop?
Two amazing laydowns by two incredible players.
On the topic, but a little off...is anyone else upset that the HORSE tourney only showed the FT, which was NL holdem? I was hoping to see these guys playing Stud8, Razz, etc. 
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:39 am GMT by aaronw
| Dat_Dude wrote: | | On the topic, but a little off...is anyone else upset that the HORSE tourney only showed the FT, which was NL holdem? I was hoping to see these guys playing Stud8, Razz, etc. |
I was very upset at that. I would have liked to see the other games as well. As much as I love hold'em it gets boring after a while because that is all we see. It was an amazing final table though.
| Date_Dude wrote: | | nobody but the absolute upper echelon of NL players would make that laydown. |
I am not sure there are many players in the world that could make this type of laydown. I would limit this to a few players in the world. Brunson, Greenstein, Reese, Ivey and the idiot Helmuth. Possibly a few other players as well.
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:59 am GMT by Dave B
It was a great laydown. I think a TON of players can make this laydown, IF they know their opponent that well.
Dont forget, Doyle and Chip have played each other a time or two.
Also, I think Chip was the HUGE chip leader, wasnt he? It might have been a case where Doyle thought he had the best of it but didnt want to risk his tournament w/ just a pair. There is nothing wrong w/ folding a pair vs a monster stack.
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:10 pm GMT by aaronw
| Dave B wrote: | It was a great laydown. I think a TON of players can make this laydown, IF they know their opponent that well.
Dont forget, Doyle and Chip have played each other a time or two.
Also, I think Chip was the HUGE chip leader, wasnt he? It might have been a case where Doyle thought he had the best of it but didnt want to risk his tournament w/ just a pair. There is nothing wrong w/ folding a pair vs a monster stack. |
You are correct that Chip was the huge chip leader. However, I do not agree with you with you when you say that a ton of people can make that laydown. I definately don't think many people can make that laydown with as little thought that Doyle put into it.
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:42 pm GMT by Gunslinger
| aaronw wrote: | | I definately don't think many people can make that laydown with as little thought that Doyle put into it. |
Don't take that thought too far, aaron. These ESPN broadcasts are ED-IT-TED. Not only are we seeing only a fraction of hands played, obviously, but long pauses for decisions are usually trimmed down as well, for TV time purposes.
They also add pauses for drama that didn't previously exist. Case in point, the final hand of the 2004 ME. There was a special broadcast of the FT with Raymer providing commentary, and he said when he went all-in on the river, David Williams beat him into the pot, but the TV broadcast has Williams taking a little time for a dramatic decision while Normad Chad is yelling that if he calls the tournament is over.
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:24 pm GMT by aaronw
| Gunslinger wrote: | | aaronw wrote: | | I definately don't think many people can make that laydown with as little thought that Doyle put into it. |
Don't take that thought too far, aaron. These ESPN broadcasts are ED-IT-TED. Not only are we seeing only a fraction of hands played, obviously, but long pauses for decisions are usually trimmed down as well, for TV time purposes.
They also add pauses for drama that didn't previously exist. Case in point, the final hand of the 2004 ME. There was a special broadcast of the FT with Raymer providing commentary, and he said when he went all-in on the river, David Williams beat him into the pot, but the TV broadcast has Williams taking a little time for a dramatic decision while Normad Chad is yelling that if he calls the tournament is over. |
Thats a fair assessment. I never really thought of it like that. However, I still don't think as many people could make that laydown as some people were saying (I could be wrong though)
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:38 pm GMT by Dave B
Why not? Pros fold sets, straights or flushes, why not a single pair?
Posted Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:46 pm GMT by aaronw
| Dave B wrote: | | Why not? Pros fold sets, straights or flushes, why not a single pair? |
They fold those under heavy betting. They do not fold sets, straights, flushes to a min. raise on the flop. I could be wrong though... I just think its an outstanding laydown.
Posted Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:20 am GMT by Dave B
I can fold overpairs to a min raise on the flop in a limit game when I know there are only 2 more big big bets to call and it wont be my tourney by the river-and I am not a great player.
|
|
