Poker teacher / tutor / coach? |
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Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:26 pm GMT by supafrey
I've been somewhat seriously considering (IRC kids will groan at this one) becoming a poker tutor for private lessons either online or in person.
If you WERE to get a coach, what kind of things would you want from him?
1. Detailed lesson plans and problems, a la Harrington volume 3, which just show off key points?
2. Random theory lectures, a la University, where different ideas get highlighted and recommended?
3. Live table railing, with MSN/IRC private messages dealing with what holecards you have, how you played them, and critiques?
4. Videos of "good" play at the same stakes/site, with audio commentary?
5. Hand history analysis?
6. Basic Q + A?
Other ideas? I realize I may just get back "yeah those sound good", but recommendations of stuff I haven't considered or advice on which of these are good/bad would be useful.
Secondly, what is a good enough rate for coaching? I figure that I may start roughly in the 40-50 buck/hour range for teaching 50nl-400nl. With my experience at those particular stakes, that seems reasonable. Deals for return customers, bulk buying, videos, etc, would somehow fall into place, too.
Ideas? Interest? Suggestions?
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Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:33 pm GMT by Dave B
Thunder Keller posted an article on cardplayer.com about this, you might want to search for that.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:37 pm GMT by TheSalche
I'd say the videos are helpful ... insight into the mind of poker player while they are playing a hand helps you learn how to think about hands.
After that live table railing.
Hand history analysis can be useful ... but that could get too time consuming for the teacher, with not much results coming out of it (hard to read HH after HH).
Throw together some good lesson plans, other than that there's too many situations in poker to be explained in theory, you just have to live through them and learn.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:38 pm GMT by crack
Hand analysis is probably the best method I find to start off with, but if you could show consistent stats via poker tracker then you could probably do the other stuff as well.
Live railing would be good on an hourly basis, but the hand analysis you should do it something like $50 per 50 hands or something.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:45 pm GMT by supafrey
Detailed explanation of hand histories would take up some time, yeah. Prolly more like 10hh/50 bucks, but with like.. ACTUALLY detailed answers to all the nuances/considerations? Would that be fair? 15hh/50?
Also, what kind of pricing could possibly be fair for downloaded videos?
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:54 pm GMT by ScanX
we need a teaser with 1 or 2 videos of you playing and giving advices
, supa
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:12 pm GMT by supafrey
I thought about that. My old videos (i made 3-4 at 4 tables of 200) had sound issues and I was a bit to un-sober during the filming to really talk toooo much in detail. They were fairly interesting, IMHO, and I know I can do it well, and could even provide customized videos (telling me how many tables to play, what stakes, etc) specifically designed to players' demands.
I guess I'll go buy camtasia and maybe try that out first.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:30 pm GMT by MJJ
Supa-
I had a friend who wanted some help when he started playing online. I found that I could help him the most by being on the phone w/ him while railbirding him- It was easier/faster to tell him what I thought than type it.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:12 pm GMT by ORGrinder
what about heads up play at a play money table. to start with this would likely be the easiest and most effective way. if there's a site that has play money heads up where you can disable the time-out feature... this would be best. this way you could discuss the cards at length if need be without being auto folded.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:23 pm GMT by khaosanroad
Videos would help best. Have just 1 or 2 tables at a time so you have time to explain your thought process while you are playing the hand.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:33 pm GMT by mackkie
I am going on the basic assumption that these players would be new to holdem but would have the basic principals down.
Good things for you to let them know:
*Basic strategy - e.g. how to play against tight, agressive, loose, donkey, etc.
*Pot odds - also how to count outs and figure out rough percentages in their head
The best way to get your points across is to sit down with the person while they are playing online and let them play hands. I would not say anything and watch them for a little while. It should be easy for a good player to pick up on their weaknesses. After this, sit down with them and let them know what you are thinking they should do and why you would make that play.
Limited hand history analyzation would be fine, maybe with the hands you watched. Any more than this would because too time consuming for you.
Sorry for any repeat suggestions, i read thru it really quickly.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:20 pm GMT by supafrey
Actually.. Contrary to that, I'm hoping to teach current 200 or 400nl players that are breaking even or only making minimal profit. I think I have alot to teach players with much greater amounts of exp, actually, and many good 50 or 100nl players that can grasp some basic logical thinking / reasoning.
At the very worst, I could make any player a decent winner just nitting 100nl. =/
My first attempted coaching is ScanX. hopefully he'll just sign the freaking agreement so his classes could get underway.
P.S. Play money tables may not be what I need... I need people to feel the importance of their money in realistic scenarios... I dont know if the bland theory + play chips could help teach that.
I'm definitely gonna get a serial number for camtasia (somehow?) and make a couple 200 or 400nl tables. Maybe even 50, 500 or 750, too.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:12 pm GMT by ScanX
$50/hour to get supa's advices...talk about a waste of money :|
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:15 pm GMT by tame_deuces
If I wanted a coach I would want live railing, none of the other stuff would be appealing to me actually. Vids can be nice but so very, very boring.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:33 pm GMT by supafrey
| ScanX wrote: | $50/hour to get supa's advices...talk about a waste of money  |
sign the contract already you bum
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:43 pm GMT by ScanX
I can get better advices for free on the forum !
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:44 pm GMT by supafrey
ahahAHahahaHAHahahahAHAHah
i know a trap when i see one.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:47 pm GMT by ScanX
now u're being mean and arrogant again...who do u think is going to give any money to someone like you ? 
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:54 pm GMT by supafrey
I was laughing at your obvious attempts to needle, you troll waffle.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:55 pm GMT by ScanX
this is the new supa, same as the old supa
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:59 pm GMT by supafrey
you're still doing it.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:10 pm GMT by ScanX
just helpin people to read between the lines :
"I teach u how to play for 50 bucks/hour"
read : I'm broke, help me build my BR back by sendin me money.
spam ? 
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:41 pm GMT by supafrey
you must really, really be bored.
And if you really want to compare BR growth over the past few months I'd be glad to do it, champ. =)
Topic stealin' needling troll.
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:13 pm GMT by ScanX
last time we compared BR's u werent that talkative afterwards, champ
please stop hijacking this thread by wanting to compare e-penises, supa :|
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:20 pm GMT by misterjokerboy
You two should just get a room, then you can compare real penises, rather than e-penises 
Posted Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:42 pm GMT by Johny
I thought Scan was the better player?
/adds to drama
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:36 am GMT by groton
Nah Supa the better play but Dave is the best player here
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:18 am GMT by TheSalche
Since when does the Belgium champ need advice from some schmuck canuck ...
love you ...
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:13 am GMT by ScanX
who wants groton's opinion when we have johny and thesalche ?
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:51 am GMT by Dave B
I, for one, claim that Dave is NOT the best player here.
Maybe, just maybe, if I didnt have a family, job, and financial responsibilities that takes of energy away from my poker time, I might be able to get there.
Also, you guys arent even talking about 2 guys who made WSOP final tables in the last year. If you are measuring E-penises, you might want to start there.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:54 am GMT by supafrey
scan's attempts at distraction have worked. good job guys. i'm surprised he didn't just have to jingle a set of keys or something.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:15 am GMT by jimmer
I think you need demostate three keys USP's.
Firstly, you need to have a proven track record. You need to prove you have the skills and knowledge to be a succesful coach. This would require more work than; "I've made lots of money playing poker, hire me!".
Secondly, you will need to be able to sell yourself and product. Most of us could offer advice to make someone else a better poker player. But can you regularly get in the mind of your client, understand the way they play and then produce an individual "business proposal" for each and every player. Selling is the art of giving the customer what they want, disguised as what you want them to have. What motivates one person to buy your product won't motivate another. You need to make sure you understand their individual needs and adapt accordingly. I'm not saying you won't or can't. I'm just making you aware that there are plenty of great tradesman out there, but they never get the recognition they deserve, because they can't sell their business properly.
Thirdly you need to be able to give your client a long-term "acheiveable and realistic" target, at an affordable price. One customer maybe able to afford $50 per hour, the other $5 per week. Eitherway, if you have someone else who does it cheaper, you'll business will never develop.
To answer your question, detailed lesson plans, random lectures, live table railing, videos and hand history analysis are all important. However i would personally be looking for someone who understands where I go wrong. Someone who's been in hole I'm in and climbed out the otherside. I also don't want to be a statistic. I want my coach to be a friend, understand my needs and know how to handle everything i can throw at them. (This includes listening to what a crap day i've had at work). Finally I want someone who knows my potential. Someone who can tell me where i'll be in 3 months time. Someone who is more passionate about my poker career than me.
I want someone who understands and believes in ME!
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:35 am GMT by supafrey
Thank you for that well thought out reply. Appreciated.
I have no track record "officially" as a coach - this would be the beginning. I've taught a few people from scratch, but never enthusiastically or for $, so using them as references is pointless. I've been the sole teacher for my older brother, and he's become a moderate winner on some sites (up 40-60 buyins at low-mid limit NL cash).
This is a delicate balance issue that I need to play off of how much my "time" is really worth. Quite frankly 50/h would be alot to most people, but considering most artistic/academic skills cost roughly the same and provide little economic benefit to the student.... I honestly don't know if i'd be willing to work for much less. It's something i have to figure out soon.
Thanks again for the tips. And i'd gladly listen to people bitch.. if i was on the clock. Then i'd explain to them why bitching was stupid =P
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:59 am GMT by UrAteUp
| ScanX wrote: | | $50/hour to get supa's advices...talk about a waste of money |
QFT...now if Scan, Gumbie, Suited or Tamed were giving lessons then I could see spending that money as +EV....but with Supa... 
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:31 am GMT by Dave B
Back on topic, I dont see how much you someone can learn simply be looking at hand analysis. So much about poker is the flow of the game, who is controlling action and who is laying back waiting for the nuts.
Isolated hand analysis is like taking a snap shot of a football game (Amer, Eur, or Can-you pick) it is tough to tell who is winning a game by one look.
If you really want someone to learn how to play, I think they need to watch you. Not just get your action and hand history, but see how you see you play. Do you look for online tells? Do immediately reraise, deliberately wait or take the same amount of time to act in every situation.
One dirty little trick I use it in a turbo SNG if I have a big chip lead I take all the time allowed. I want to get those blinds high ASAP so that everyone else is forced to go all in. That info wont get picked up based on hand history alone.
Maybe you could charge $25/hour to have someone watch you play and $50 if you are asked to go through hand history and provide analysis.
Finally, make sure that they know there is no substitute for experience.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:34 am GMT by jimmer
I don't think you should worry too much about having a history of teaching, or playing poker. The important thing is CONVIENCING players you have.
Please take time to look at the type of market you're aiming at. If you aiming at a beguinner, the chances are they won't have much money to spend on coaching, (or even won't want to). If you'll aiming at a more "experienced" player, they will have a better understanding of the game and will therefore think they actually don't need you!
Let me put things in prespective; If I have a query about the way I'm playing poker, I log onto this forum and ask the question. The members then reply. This facility is FREE. If I'm in a live game and I get a problem, there's normally somebody who's willing to give me their knowledge if asked. Once again it's FREE. You plan to charge, therefore you need to offer something which is worth paying for. Make sure you understand this, before moving further forward.
Don't get me wrong. I think there is definatley a need for someone like yourself. Good luck to you.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:42 am GMT by jimmer
| Dave B wrote: | | Maybe you could charge $25/hour to have someone watch you play and $50 if you are asked to go through hand history and provide analysis. |
I guess this an amount of what you're willing to pay?
I think supa needs to research this a bit more first. How many others will pay $25 per hour to be watched? If you can be watched for $10 you'll gonna go elsewhere. Visa-versa, If everyone else is charging $100, supa can charge a bit more. If only one person will pay $100 he should maybe drop lower.
Supa, why don't you run a poll on what the players on this site are willing to pay for a coach. Include $0 as one of the answers.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:55 am GMT by Dave B
Not to confuse things, I was saying let him watch Supa play and pay Supa $25/hour. NOT have Supa watch him play.
Last night was a great example, we had a home game (Thanks MJJ!) and I doubled up early, then took out 2 players. This gave me a massive stack, the next 5-6 players that I took out seemed amazed at the hands that I was winning with. But what they didnt see is the better hands that I was laying down and the type of hands that I wanted to play. They were all hands where if I hit the flop I would likely bust someone.
If someone was just in the game or watching the table online without seeing my hole cards, I looked like I was just trying to be a bully and push people around. This wasnt the case at all. I was still picking my spots and looking to risk some chips to bust out the remaining players.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:09 am GMT by mackkie
I am just curious, what kind of limits are you playing at supa?
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:14 am GMT by supafrey
as of late soley multitabling 400nl, 500nl and 750nl.
small tourneys of mixed games for fun. ^_^
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:00 pm GMT by Jauron
I've always wanted to fly, despite my fear of heights; I'd pay $50 an hour for that.
There are two ways to teach poker IMO and with two sets of people. Theory is the usual way, for those willing to listen to it and grasps it's concepts it may teach them things they don't already know, maybe.
The other is to sweat cards, if this you be sweating them and giving them advice or them sweating you and you explaining what you are doing. It probable would work best if you let them sweat. They have enough to think about without also processing what you are telling them while THEY play. Even with this meathod it would take considerable time to cover much of anything since situations differ greatly at any given time.
In the end though both are bound to fail for most players. Why? Because despite your best attempts they may not really want to learn, and what’s worse they may not have the convictions or the talents to actually use what you teach them, if in fact you have anything to offer. For this reason any coaching of a random player should be seen as exactly what it is, a source of money for you.
Given your track record here of refusing to explain your reasoning in most cases I'd literally LOL at anyone who took you up on this offer for anything but free.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:11 pm GMT by supafrey
my lack of elaboration is usually correlated to my lack of incentive.
This is a bit different in this case.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:21 pm GMT by Jauron
True, your incentive is money which alone should make anyone weary of your teachings. Consider what is more profitable, slowly leading them along without teaching them much milking them dry or given up the secrets of the universe at lightning speed.
A man completly unwilling to do something for free is only going to give a marginal difference in effort when he is paid. The key is to keep the job, not to do it so well it is no longer needed.
How is this any better than the spam we get everyday?
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:30 pm GMT by supafrey
| Jauron wrote: | True, your incentive is money which alone should make anyone weary of your teachings. Consider what is more profitable, slowly leading them along without teaching them much milking them dry or given up the secrets of the universe at lightning speed.
A man completly unwilling to do something for free is only going to give a marginal difference in effort when he is paid. The key is to keep the job, not to do it so well it is no longer needed.
How is this any better than the spam we get everyday? |
I would never play against someone that I would teach for . That is downright unethical and completely unproductive for either person.
Secondly, your money/effort conclusion is fallacious. You have no authority to say that and any examples you could show would be anecdotal. For your info, I pretty much hate NL poker. I still do it. Alot. Like, alot. $ is everything.
And the diff between me asking info for something i want to do (and probably get ad slots for, if it became something i did for cash) in the mid-future and spam should be obv.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:55 pm GMT by Skribbles
Don't charge an hourly rate. Just tell the guy to have his bankroll ready and you take a % of profit.
BTW... no offense to you Supa... but I think that "Poker coaches" are ridiculous. Sure a person may be able to do something when you are there to hold their hand. But when you're not... a bad player is still a bad player. Poker is a mental games. IMO, you cannot teach someone mental ability. You may be able to teach them odds/hands etc... which is nothing more than they will get out of a book.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:22 pm GMT by supafrey
okay. would most people be willing to pay atleast SOME money to have all their hypothetical questions answered for a whole hour, though?
somehow i think the business is there.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:48 pm GMT by aaronw
| supa wrote: | | somehow i think the business is there. |
I think that there is potential for sure. I think the main think you would have to do is find some clientelle. Maybe creating a website or something would help. This would give all potential clients an opportunity to view everything that you offer, etc.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:52 pm GMT by crack
| Skribbles wrote: | Don't charge an hourly rate. Just tell the guy to have his bankroll ready and you take a % of profit.
BTW... no offense to you Supa... but I think that "Poker coaches" are ridiculous. Sure a person may be able to do something when you are there to hold their hand. But when you're not... a bad player is still a bad player. Poker is a mental games. IMO, you cannot teach someone mental ability. You may be able to teach them odds/hands etc... which is nothing more than they will get out of a book. |
Nah I don't agree. I learnt more from watching a friend of mine play Stud, Razz, Stud H/L, Omaha and Limit Holdem than I have ever done from any book. He also told me that though books are good, they are just a big generlisation on how to play the game overall and they don't usually go into the specific small edges that make you money. He was talking about stud books mainly.
I hope it goes well for you Supa, but I think that market may be just a bit too much saturated with quite a lot of 2+2ers doing this for a) free and if they do charge, they are usually playing a lot higher limits than 400nl.
Also Gank has started up a poker school and there are a few of those around as well. I think you may have missed the boat with this idea.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:42 pm GMT by gumbie
Supa I'd pay to watch you play, but only if you didn't know I was watching.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:25 pm GMT by supafrey
now if only i had any way of doing that =/
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:27 pm GMT by zinn0
escrow!
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:44 pm GMT by aaronw
| supa wrote: | | now if only i had any way of doing that =/ |
Sorry if I am missing something, but what do you not know how to do? A way of collecting the money? A way to start everything? A way to find customers?
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:52 pm GMT by supafrey
Gumbie's idea. I could camtasia, but ofcourse it's atleast somewhat affected by the fact that "other people will see how i play". At home i dont have that issue.
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:10 pm GMT by Skribbles
| crack wrote: | | Skribbles wrote: | Don't charge an hourly rate. Just tell the guy to have his bankroll ready and you take a % of profit.
BTW... no offense to you Supa... but I think that "Poker coaches" are ridiculous. Sure a person may be able to do something when you are there to hold their hand. But when you're not... a bad player is still a bad player. Poker is a mental games. IMO, you cannot teach someone mental ability. You may be able to teach them odds/hands etc... which is nothing more than they will get out of a book. |
Nah I don't agree. I learnt more from watching a friend of mine play Stud, Razz, Stud H/L, Omaha and Limit Holdem than I have ever done from any book. He also told me that though books are good, they are just a big generlisation on how to play the game overall and they don't usually go into the specific small edges that make you money. He was talking about stud books mainly.
|
You make good points.
I see poker as a type of thinking. Some people have it, some don't. I relate this to Math vs English. Certain people excel at math but cannnot string together 2 sentences on paper. Certain people can write novels but cannot grasp simple mathematical concepts (algebra, trig etc..).
Every person processes information differently. If you cannot quickly process what is happening around your table, you will never be a great poker player. Having someone point this stuff out to will help if that exact situation arises again but these people will still be baffled when they run into a situation they haven't been taught how to handle. And as we all know, no two situations in poker are ever the same.
Reading and understanding every thing about the game is a great start but if you cannot develop your own style, you will not be a great player. Slightly profitable, maybe, but no expert. Copying another persons playing style will just not work IMO. Seriously.... how the hell could Supa teach someone to be a luckbox???
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:47 pm GMT by Phil14312
2+2 has a fairly large number of poker teachers who offer services, you can download an excel file with all of them compiled. Might be something to look at how the competition does it.
Posted Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:45 pm GMT by khaosanroad
I"m assuming this will be called Supasystem I
Posted Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:51 pm GMT by JackKingOff
ID be interested but 50$/hr for a mere 16 yr old -_- kinda steep...
Maybe do wat greenstein did (in addition to what u plan to do)
host a HU cash session for them and basically u keep waht they lose and then tell them what they did wrong
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:44 am GMT by jimmer
| khaosanroad wrote: | | I"m assuming this will be called Supasystem I |
nice1
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:59 am GMT by supafrey
Supangton on Holdem?
Theory of Supa?
Zen and the art of Supa?
Kill Supa?
Beating Online Supa?
Small Stakes Supa?
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:23 pm GMT by UrAteUp
| supafrey wrote: | Supangton on Holdem?
Theory of Supa?
Zen and the art of Supa?
Kill Supa?
Beating Online Supa?
Small Stakes Supa? |
Donking 101
Poker the Donk Way
Couple of suggestions for you Supa... 
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:49 pm GMT by ScanX
| supafrey wrote: |
Kill Supa?
|
I've got a few ideas for this one...
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:08 pm GMT by supafrey
drowning me in kisses, fairy boy?
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:42 pm GMT by jeffonline
Supa set your Goals and go It, I would suggest that a good way to start is on a commission basis, like staking in a Tournament except your input is your time and expertise; you share the winnings and get zit if they don’t come. You need a contact have a spend limit for your client over the next 6 months and you go 50-50 in any winnings (I leave the figures up to you). When they play they must email you. You can track their progress this way. If they default on the contact (don’t play the agreered games times stakes etc) you have a default clause with a fee for services that becomes payable. Like any new business needs a business plan. Your success can be judged by your Clients success. As you stated early in this post if you can teach to 100 & 200 NLH players who are now breaking even to become winners, well a 10% improvement will be very rewarding.
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:19 pm GMT by supafrey
getting staked to play while someone gets to watch + hear all my hole cards is an interesting idea. (With split winnings or something). I just wonder whether people would be able to handle the kind of swings i usually do ;P
it would probably be better for tourneys. hrms.. I'm nowhere near pro enough for those. I've only got like 8-9k worth of winnings off of those..
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:52 pm GMT by jeffonline
I might not have explained it correctly. They play, they pay, you watch, you coach, you both share the winnings. You stake them with your time and expertise only.
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:59 pm GMT by supafrey
i would never do that.
edit: okay i'd never do that for a tourney. if anyone let me do that for a cash game they'd prolly be stupid.
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:12 pm GMT by jeffonline
Just ideas, food for thought.
Posted Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:16 am GMT by supafrey
okay who wants horse lessons now?
PokerStars Tournament #35678045, HORSE
Buy-In: $100.00/$9.00
80 players
Total Prize Pool: $8000.00
Tournament started - 2006/11/13 - 21:45:00 (ET)
Dear pavelzzz,
You finished the tournament in 3rd place.
A $1,120.00 award has been credited to your Real Money account.
Posted Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:18 am GMT by misterjokerboy
| supafrey wrote: | okay who wants horse lessons now?
PokerStars Tournament #35678045, HORSE
Buy-In: $100.00/$9.00
80 players
Total Prize Pool: $8000.00
Tournament started - 2006/11/13 - 21:45:00 (ET)
Dear pavelzzz,
You finished the tournament in 3rd place.
A $1,120.00 award has been credited to your Real Money account. |
Fish 
Nah, seriously well done
Posted Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:25 am GMT by MJJ
Perhaps you want a title for your success?
J/K 
Posted Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:31 am GMT by supafrey
heh if i got the $2400ish first place, the IRC crew promised to petition
Posted Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:00 am GMT by MrDarling
Supa, I thought a lot about this.
please remember that I really respect your ability as a player.
follow are few random thoughts
* If you are good in something, it doesn't necessary mean you can teach it. Teaching is a different talent by it self.
* If you want to teach, you should either
1. Come with a detailed planed that you think will improve any player (Hi, how would we, your possible costumer, know what will make us better. Its your job to know
or 2. interview individuals and build a specific plan to each person.
* Why would you want to get paid $50 an hour when I've seen you make $400 in half an hour multi tabling? (This is a serious question)
* Why should anyone trust you without any track record, especially considering your competition (top pro's)?
Considering all of the above here is my suggestion. Find a couple of willing student YOU believe have the ability to become winner poker players. Together find the best way to teach them how to improve the game. Split the winning.
For example, if you can help me turn €100 into €10K I'll happily give you half of it. Will you need 100 hours to turn me into a winning player? I'm guessing not, so you'd actually make better income this way..
The agreement between you and your students needs to be clear, but you will need to trust them. No agreement made will ever hold in court, so be careful who you choose.
As for methods, I actually doubt a Q&A session to be a hugh help. There are 100 of books around offering great advise. I think watching them play while IM (of course live will be better) and commenting on hand during play and lengthly discussing hands after play is probably the best method.
Good luck, and if you seriously considering this, feel free to contact me!
Danny
Posted Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:56 am GMT by jimmer
| MrDarling wrote: | | * Why would you want to get paid $50 an hour when I've seen you make $400 in half an hour multi tabling? (This is a serious question) |
Danny, I agree with ALL that you say, but for this comment.
Firstly, coaching is risk free. Yeah, supa has sometimes made $400 in half an hour, but I bet he's from time-to-time lost $400 in half-an-hour.
Secondly, even if Supa ends up offering his services for free, if it works, he will soon build up a customer base. Some of these customers may be playing for stakes bigger than this amount.
I'm not sure if Supa is onto a winner or not. However, as a businesses opportunity, the investment required to start this idea is so small, I think he's gotta go for it.
Posted Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:28 pm GMT by supafrey
Yeah to answer the question there's a big difference between gauranteed income and gambling. I'm even cutting those fees to start, and have a few people on board for $30-40/h just to build up a customer base.
I am doing very personal-based lessons and some more general stuff as well. I've already started filming some videos of me playing and will either be providing those at a small charge or giving them away to people on a free video per hour of lesson type deal.
Something I'm really interested in is making a little dvd of several videos and mailing them out to customers after a certain number of hours of lessons (5?) as a little bonus. I've already got almost a dozen videos and am going to be making a whooole bunch more.
And I'm glad to say I've gotten interest from about 4-5 people right now. I owe them lesson plans to seal the deal, but I've been sick for the past few days. When I get better I hope to sign up up 100% and get this underway. Thanks for the suggestions everyone, and keep them coming.
Posted Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:22 pm GMT by jimmer
| supafrey wrote: | | Thanks for the suggestions everyone, and keep them coming. |
As I've already suggested, I think you need to GO FOR IT!. There will be problems, but as long as you keep asking the questions, I think you can make this a success.
keep asking the questions and GOOD LUCK!!!
Posted Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:43 pm GMT by PanchoStern
I'm a pro musician & make the bulk of my income from teaching. There IS a big difference between being a good player & being a good teacher. I'm lucky in that I LOVE to teach & I'm extremely good at it. You don't have to be a "famous" person in order to make a living at it if you are truly good at teaching. That is being able to explain something to someone who might have no clue or helping someone that is already well along by pointing out their weaknesses AND showing them how to overcome those.
That is basically what teaching is. Now with that comes marketing. I have more students than anyone in my area & I've been able to build up quite a reputation. Of course doing a tour in 2003 with a Lating Grammy winner helped quite a bit.
My point? Well I'm new here so I don't really know who you are supa or if you were telling the truth about having 2 WSOP breacelets (sorry if I misread or misinterpreted) but if you are good at what you do you CAN make $$ at it. You just need to find ONE person to go along with it & let word of mouth get you the others. People ARE willing to pay for one on one advice. I'll be honest I'm one of those man. If I could find someone I'd do. Being a teacher I realize how important it is to continue to learn & to get experience by simply playing. There is no substitute.
Also DON"T sell yourself cheap either. What you said price wise I think sounds good. I remember when I first started to charge more I thought I'd lose students then it went through the roof man. I'm EXTREMELY blessed to be able to make a living as a musician. It's cutthroat just as I'm sure being a pro poker player is. That's where you separate the men from the boys.
Go for it dude.
Posted Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:06 am GMT by snoogins47
| jimmer wrote: | | MrDarling wrote: | | * Why would you want to get paid $50 an hour when I've seen you make $400 in half an hour multi tabling? (This is a serious question) |
Danny, I agree with ALL that you say, but for this comment.
Firstly, coaching is risk free. Yeah, supa has sometimes made $400 in half an hour, but I bet he's from time-to-time lost $400 in half-an-hour. |
Aye. Diversification is nice: teaching, while still poker, is significantly different from grinding, and that alone might be worth earning less/hr than playing. In that sense it's barely different from dabbling in games you're not used to, or playing a set of SNGs when you normally just play cash, etc.
More important is the risk element. When an endeavor involves getting paid $X every week, you can't have a losing month. I think for many of us, the ability to say "well, no matter what happens with poker, I'll still be able to pay my rent" is quite attractive. I have to force myself to stop talking about this otherwise I'll go on for days: lots of drunken chats with friends/poker players about my thoughts on this, variance, propping, and who knows what else.
Not to mention, teaching somebody a subject often requires you to think about the subject in different ways, so you can convey it efficiently and accurately. I think the student-teacher relationship often has more of an impact on the latter of the two than it superficially seems to.
Posted Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:26 am GMT by supafrey
I may go into business with snoggins.
opinions/thoughts?
Posted Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:05 am GMT by tame_deuces
| supafrey wrote: | I may go into business with snoggins.
opinions/thoughts? |
Don't hustle a hustler.
And be sure Snoo gets paid by the hour and not per lesson, you'll make millions.
Posted Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:59 pm GMT by groton
yah defenty good idea vary good idea
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