Getting better at Tourney play |
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Posted Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:48 pm GMT by Concussed
I started on FL in June but began to get brassed off with being called to the River and losing to flushes / straights etc !!
Anyway, decided to have a bash at cheap NL tourneys, and after losing my first 10 or so, in the last 2 i've come 27th and tonight, 14th. Albeit, i was never anywhere near the top 5.
Any ideas how i can consolidate and push on ? It seems that the higher points players seem to Raise and Bet higher then i tend to. Is it a case of being bolder without going All-in.
Any thoughts ??
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Posted Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:04 pm GMT by BMG13
There's too much information missing to directly help you out.
All I can say is pick up a few books, read these forums, and play "straight-forward" and you should be good to go!
Posted Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:11 pm GMT by zinn0
play more tournaments
Posted Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:55 pm GMT by Johny
| zinn0 wrote: | | play more tournaments |
QFT
That's how you really learn.
Posted Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:33 pm GMT by jeffonline
For any one to help at this point they would have to post the equivalent of a book, don’t be discouraged everyone has to make a start at some point and you have done that. The very fact that you are now seeking information is the start of the learning curb. I suggest read, play, read play, read, play. It gets better from here.
Posted Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:39 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Here's a copy of something I wrote awhile back. It needs a little work, but hopefully it may help a little.
I wrote a few responses to "how to play tournaments" questions yesterday and today and I thought I'd compile them in my blog if anyone wants to reference them...
Well, the first thing you need to keep track of is the size of your stack in relation to the size of the blinds and antes. Add up the sum of the blinds and antes, and divide your chips by that number (Dan Harrington calls this number "M," but what you call it is unimportant). Keep these guidelines in mind:
When this number is above 20, you are in good shape, and all options and styles are open to you.
When this number is between 12 and 20, you lose the ability to limp into most pots with marginal hands like small pairs and suited connectors (because you simply won't hit that great flop often enough and double up for it to be worth it). When you come into a pot at this stage, you will want to be raising, probably between 3 and 4 times the big blind, and be prepared to play the hand for all your chips as you get lower.
When this number is between 8 and 12, you're starting to get into trouble. In addition to some of the hands you would normally raise with, you may now just want to shove in all your chips, particularly if there are some limpers who put dead money in the pot. If you hold a solid hand and an opponent has raised before you, rather than calling, just put in all your chips. This gives you a chance to win the pot out right, and still have a chance to win at showdown if he calls.
When this number shrinks below 7 or 8 (this is my personal preference--some people will tell you higher or lower), your preflop decision is reduced to two options: fold or raise all-in. Don't limp, and don't open the pot for a 3-4x BB raise, because you will essentially be committed anyway. The all-in gives you a decent shot at a steal, and lets you see all 5 cards if someone calls.
When this number shrinks below 4, you do not want to let the blinds hit you again. Simply take an above average hand and throw all your chips in the pot, and hope to get lucky enough to crawl your way back.
step 2... evaluating what step you're at in the tournament.
The way I figure it, there are 5 main stages to a multi-table tournament:
1. The early stage
2. The middle stage
3. The bubble
4. The late stage
5. The final table
The Early Stage
The early stage is characterized by large stacks in relation to the blinds, and the presence of a lot of dead money that will put their chips in at less than ideal junctures.
While some players will tell you that you should play extremely tightly at the early stages, but I prefer to play much looser than normal, particularly from late position. In unraised pots, I will do a lot of limping with suited aces, suited connectors and gappers, and even offsuit connecting cards. My goal here is to hit a big flop and double (or even triple) my stack.
In early stages (ie the first 3 levels or so), I consider all the following hands candidates for limping depending on the situation:
Any suited ace
All small pairs
All suited connectors JTs - 54s
Any two cards above 10, especially suited
One gap suited connectors J9s - 75s
Connectors JT - 87
Hands better than that I prefer to raise with.
I prefer not to play unsuited high cards or connectors except from later positions, and I often like to raise with hands like KJs and QJs from middle position or later to narrow my opponents' hand ranges. Sometimes, high suited aces (A8+) and some small pairs (66+) can also be brought it for a raise if no one has opened the pot in front of you and you're in a later position.
From early position, I also prefer to throw away trap hands like KQo, AJo, KJo, and ATo.
My tournament philosophy is simple: you do everything you can to win. And that almost always means trying to get the BIG STACK. And I'm willing to take a lot of chances to get it.
Some players will also tell you not to gamble too much in the early stage, or to avoid coinflips. That advice is misguided in my view. To win tournaments, you must be willing to gamble, and you will probably have to win your fair share of coinflips to make it to #1. And since there's no difference in payout between last and one before the bubble, why not take some chances early and hope to build a monster stack? I'm quite willing to take AK in a race against QQ or JJ (or vice versa), or push very hard with big straight and flush draws on the flop.
Depending on what kind of cards you get, you will probably either have a decent stack or a very small one by the time the middle stage begins, but that's when play changes significantly anyway.
The Middle Stage
In big MTT's, this is often the longest stage of the tournament, and it's characterized by most players having an average stack that is around 20x the antes and blinds, or slightly less. Play gets much tighter at this stage, so you'll need to adjust accordingly.
If I have a big stack (say, 30x the antes and blinds or more), I don't change my style much. I like to continue to play hands like suited connectors, although I start semi-bluffing a lot with them by making small raises before the flop.
But chances are, depending on the structure, that even the chip leaders will not have especially large stacks, so you'll probably need to tighten up a lot in the middle stage.
From early position, folding the vast majority of your hands is often correct. KJs, AJo, KQo, ATs, 77-22, and other marginal hands should almost always be folded. From middle position, if no one has entered the pot, any hand worth playing is probably worth raising (chances are your M is between 12 and 20 in this stage). But since players have tightened up significantly, you can often raise with as little as a suited Ace, but be careful raising with hands that can easily be dominated, like KJ and QJ. Be aware of the "gap principle" (the idea that you must have a stronger hand to call a raise with than raise yourself), and know that many hands that call you may dominate you. From late position, stealing becomes very important. So important that I'll devote a paragraph to it.
Stealing is a tricky thing, because you have to take many things into account: how do other players see you? What are the players in the blinds like? Are they passive, or do they defend? When they defend, what do they usually do on the flop? What are their stacks like and how desperate or dangerous are they?
In general, the following things make stealing favorable:
1. Other players see you as either very solid, or very tricky and dangerous.
2. The players in the blinds are relatively passive and often give up without a fight.
3. The players in the blinds have mid-sized stacks, not particularly large or small (big stacks may like to bully and play back at you, and small stacks can often get desperate and reraise all-in, which MAY force you off the hand).
4. The players in the blinds are likely to fold to a continuation bet on the flop (personally I love players who defend their blinds, but check/fold when they miss a flop, which is well over 60% of the time).
And the following things make stealing unfavorable:
1. Other players see you as loose, but not especially dangerous (ie they see you raise a lot, but back off when players play back at you).
2. The players in the blinds are highly defensive for whatever reason, and often play the flop aggressively. Sometimes, big stacks that are always in the blinds on your button can "handcuff" you and prevent you from stealing much. Here, there's not much you can do but hope for a better table draw, or hope for hands that warrant raising for value instead of a steal.
In any case, I cannot emphasize that stealing is probably the single most important part of middle stage tournament play, because it help keeps your stack healthy (you will never lose chips if you steal successfully once every orbit), and may even help it grow (if you steal an average of more than once per orbit).
Of course, you also want to push your good hands very hard as well. In this stage, you will often need some luck to help make big leaps in your stack (getting dealt AA is great, but it's even better when someone else is dealt KK on the same hand). Here, I don't mind gambling, but I like to be the bigger stack when I suspect a coin flip situation, becaus even if I lose, I won't be out. Re-raising before the flop is a very strong move here, and I like to reraise with AK, AQ, and 99 or better for pairs. Just remember TJ Cloutier's maxim: the THIRD raise almost always means Aces or Kings, so if someone plays back at you after a reraise, you better have AA or KK to continue.
And finally, there is one more secret I'd like to share: with AK, moving all-in before the flop is frequently the best move. I know some players rag on AK because it's an underdog to any pair. But newsflash: most hands are battles of unpaired hands, and AK is only a slight dog to any pair except AA and KK. And even better, when you hold AK, you cut the chances that an opponent has AA or KK in HALF (if no aces or kings are accounted for, there are 6 ways each to make AA or KK... with one of each accounted for, there are only 3 ways to make each). I have had great success recently by shoving in all my chips pre-flop with AK recently, because often hands that call you end up dominated (some players seem to think making a big all-in pre-flop is weak, and will call you with AQ, AJ, and KQ (especially if they've already put in one raise), all of which you are a 3-to-1 favorite against). Occasionally, you will run into AA or KK, but when that happens, suck it up and move on. And hey, 30% of the time, you'll win against KK, and a tiny 7% of the time you can crack Aces, so keep your chin up.
With a little luck, hopefully you will be in the top 20% or so of players as you go toward the bubble, which I'll cover next time...
I will probably compile this into a giant file at some point when I've fully expanded on it to cover all the tournament stages.
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